Habitually Being Wrong

Back on June 5, I published the first in a nine part series on mutual submission that I had begun drafting on May 31:

I started the series for two reasons.

First, I was responding to this comment by info (May 29) which I happened to notice and commented on under “Everyone’s a Genius.”

Second, and primarily, I was fulfilling commenter Sharkly’s suggestion (May 30) that I address the substance of Full Metal Patriarch’s views—which were about mutual submission—rather than engage in (alleged) ad hominem.

On June 3, after I had already drafted the bulk of the article, I coincidentally—yes, coincidentally—was informed about this comment:

Comment by Jack @ Sigma Frame (2024-06-03)
Info,
The thing about Derek is his propensity to sidestep the topic by delving into a meta analysis of the underlying logic of his opponents’ arguments. While this is important to consider, the problem is that he often concludes that his opponents’ argument is invalid for some reason and stops there without returning to address the original argument brought up. As a result, the topic dies and no progress is made. Not sure if there’s a name for this debate strategy, but it is reminiscent of Breaking the Fifth Wall with an inflective twist that comes across as intellectually dishonest. The fact that this tactic is evasive, frustrating, and tedious to his opponents is slowly earning him a bad name in the sphere.

It was so surprisingly similar—and relevant—to Sharkly’s critique that I went back and updated the draft to add it in, commenting:

Is it intellectually dishonest to be intellectually rigorous and avoiding logical flaws and refusing to interact with invalid arguments? Of course not. That’s a ridiculous stance. But am I sidestepping the important topics, causing them to flounder in irrelevant meta discussions? Should I be discussing what my critics want me to discuss?

Well, I’m not going to sidestep the topic this time. Even when I discuss failed underlying logic, I’m still going to make substantive points alongside it and ultimately make a conclusion directly relevant to the core topic.

Let it not be said that I do not take advice nor respond to attempts to correct aberrant behavior. I did exactly what I said I would do. I went back and edited the article to emphasize precisely what I was supposed to be doing: focusing on addressing the original argument, precisely according to the suggestions I received.

Of course I’m not an idiot. I figured that this “advice” was not intended in any way to benefit me or my audience. Whether I address important topics or not, whether their form is detailed or concise, it’s not about having a meaningful back-and-forth dialogue. So I made a prediction to test it out:

After I post this article, more than likely the critics will just continue complaining about me personally and show that they have no actual interest in me directly addressing the important topics. Because, here I am, addressing the important topic at hand! I’m sure this article will just going the latest in articles that are labeled as “screeds” and consequently ignored. I doubt I will receive any actual substantive engagement, unless this paragraph baits a small response. I’m not holding my breath.

But, at least, I’ll have cleared my name of the spurious charge.

I ultimately wrote nine different parts. As expected, I received no engagement, not even a single comment on any of the articles by any of the critics. I didn’t even manage to bait the small response that I thought I might receive.

Did you see that original comment by Jack above? It comes from the comment section under “Hypocrisy in the Manosphere,” an article which I’ve never read. In fact, except for a few comments, I hadn’t even seen any of the comments there. I read most of them for the first time after “A Comment From History” was posted.

Ho, boy, was I in for a treat!

Comment by thedeti
Derek’s gonna have a field day with this one. Half his blogging career now at his blog is writing his long screeds about whatever’s being talked about here.

This is deeply ironic for a number of different reasons.

First, this is the first comment in that thread. When I saw Deti’s ridiculous slander, I moved on without reading any of the other comments. Why should I engage with someone who has such low standards on the handling of truth claims?

Second, I have—even now—never read the article that I was supposed to “have a field day with,” let alone wrote an article in response to it. In fact, by the time Deti had written his comment, I had already ceased regularly reading Sigma Frame for over a week due to censorship.

Third, regarding my “blogging career,” roughly half of this blog’s articles have been posted since late October, 2023. For much of that time, I have pulled article content from my old drafts in my drafts folder or reposted and reprised content from elsewhere, especially from my locked Twitter account. More recently, I published a 40-part series on the Eucharist and a 7-part series on “Justification by Faith,” which had little-to-nothing to do with Sigma Frame. Collectively, these two series alone represent ~18% of my total content! During the recently written 9-part series on mutual submission, Part 8 was a long-delayed, overdue, expected, and on-topic direct response to a 2023 Sigma Frame article. While I certainly get many ideas from Sigma Frame and enjoy interacting with its content and persons from time-to-time (as recently as “It’s Always Someone Else’s Problem“), it’s hardly been a focus, let alone obsession, of the majority of my articles. Deti does not know what he is talking about. I would guess that he has not read the vast majority of my posts that have nothing to do with Sigma Frame, or else he wouldn’t have made such a false statement.

Fourth, Deti is known to be right 99% of the time.

Fifth, Deti is known for honesty.

Feeriker
Yes, and what baffles me is the regular posters here who are responding to his screeds on his blog. That seems both pointless and an unmerited acknowledgement of the legitimacy of said screeds.

What business is it of him what other people do with their time and who they decide to interact with? A personal attack of this type—effective thought policing—is typically found in the social shaming practices found primarily in female social groups. This is amazingly ironic in light of Jack’s recent comment:

Vectors of Conflict
In the early days of the Manosphere, men shared their honest thoughts and unfiltered life experiences.  The sky was the limit for ideas and nothing was set in stone.  But as time went by, Red Pill lore gathered and gelled into highly revered literature.  Red Pill acolytes became considerably less generous, less ribald, more rigorous, and more serious.  Men became less interested in hearing about other men’s ideas and more interested in policing the purity of opinions.

I’m sure everyone will be shocked, shocked, to hear that no one commented on Feeriker’s thought policing. This is just another indication that the problem is self-inflicted. If only there was someone independent who could point it out!

Sharkly
I gave it a good shot, but you are right, it has become pretty pointless. Derek is willing to lie in defense of his goddesses. And he picks and chooses which opposing rules to apply to any situation as he goes along. He redefines words and phrases rather than admit to his errors. I have found him to be a stubborn liar. He pumps out his BS faster than anyone can respond to it, and he whines that you weren’t arguing “in good faith” after you lure him into exposing his own duplicity.

Another personal attack, this time by Sharkly. As I asked a few weeks ago, why even have these kinds of discussions? As Feeriker noted, that is baffling. In any case, rather than debate me here on the substance of my claims—of which I am willing—Sharkly follows this up with a second comment where he makes even more personal attacks.Woo!

Having seen enough, Jack then weighs in:

Jack
Derek and Sharkly, I wish to minimize the turd slinging on Σ Frame.

Derek is on moderation for hijacking discussions with comments long enough to be posts at his own blog. Sharkly is on moderation for continually making reference to the de@th penalty. So neither of you will be able to properly respond here. Also, your quarrel is between the two of you and is not related to specific topics on this blog. I don’t want to host your rift unless both of you will recognize me as a moderator with the authority to govern your debate. Otherwise, please write your arguments / defense at your own blogs.

Jack had censored me on May 23 when I made my final comment on Sigma Frame, but for some reason Jack felt the need to address me personally in a thread in which I was not involved in any way. Singling me out for association with Sharkly’s abrasive behavior is odd. I was so uninvolved that were it not for me being notified about this comment, I wouldn’t ever have read it!

Jack
Thedeti,

“Derek’s gonna have a field day with this one.”

And within 5 days, your prophecy has already been fulfilled in the form of a screed that is 8,255 words long, which is about 10x longer than anyone wants to read on a working day (Wednesday).

Jack took the time to count the number of words in my post, rather than come here to respond to the substance of my argument. This rather neatly typifies how the ad hominem is more generally petty and useless.

But, much worse than that, he couldn’t even bother to get his facts straight about Deti’s false prediction, a prediction that I would write an article in response to an article that I’ve never read. It’s only blind chance that he actually got his prediction in a couple hours before I made my first draft on my alleged “response.” You can’t make this stuff up.

Thus does manufacturing a false reality lead one into habitually being wrong.

This is not a mistake or accident, it’s a habit. I can demonstrate it with the available evidence.

This is not a mistake or accident, it’s a habit. When I wrote “Everyone’s a Genius,” I lamented at how bloggers can’t even bother to perform the most minimal amount of basic research to see if the bold, exclusive, authoritative claims hold up to even a solitary Google search. This habit leads one to conclude that Manosphere’s obsession with authority is not even based on the merit of well-reasoned analysis, let alone expertise.

This is not a mistake or accident, it’s a habit. The Professor recently pointed out that Jack had slandered someone over a photo because he failed to do even the minimal amount of research required to verify it. A simple Google search was all that was required. Thankfully, Jack did issue a retraction, but “shoot first, check sources later if you get caught” is not a good habit. This sloppy—and, possibly, intentional—handling of truth is part of an established pattern of repeat behavior, as I had discussed in “Anonymity and Plagiarism” only a few days earlier. Moreover, we know this is not a new habit. The mistake was first made in early 2022

…in a discussion about persecution and disrespecting men. How ironic that Jack did both here!

This is not a mistake or accident, it’s a habit. When Deti made an objectively false statement about me at Spawny’s Space—by making an unsubstantiated claim that required information he didn’t possess to substantiate—I pointed out his slander, he responded by calling me a liar, and the mob was sent to call for me to be banned. Rather than take the correction, he doubled- and tripled-down on a false reality. Moreover, the entire group happily embraced the slanderous falsehood because Deti has a reputation for honesty. The reality is that if Christ’s commands were followed, and the Christian manosphere actually had leaders, he would have been excommunicated.

This is not a mistake or accident, it’s a habit. In “A Comment from History, Reviewed, ” I noted how:

More than half of the patristic writers that I examined—seven out of nine, a clear majority—do not agree with Sharkly. Not only did I find more evidence than he did, but I wasn’t even looking for most of it: I just stumbled on it as part of other research I was doing. I have little doubt that this number would grow more lopsided if I expanded my search. Since he wrote his comment in 2019, Sharkly has remained critically under-informed on this topic (see here and here).

Here we have a blogger who makes sweeping, exclusive claims—which are used to sit in judgment over others—but can’t even be bothered to do even a minimal amount of research over a five year period. Of the claims he did research, I was able to debunk one of them by doing a single Google search.

This is not a mistake or accident, it is a habit. Remember in “Masculinity and the Manosphere: Part 1” how I recounted the time that Rollo Tomassi embarassed himself by loudly proclaiming the fundamental truth of Red Pill wisdom, only to pie himself in the face? Rollo—and Ivan Throne—couldn’t bother to perform even the most basic amount of research before declaring their “truth.” This is what happens when you put ideology—which includes religion, by the way—above truth.

Let’s just pause here for a minute or two and reflect.

If you are going to excoriate someone publicly about something, what does it say about your dedication to truth if you can’t even bother to verify if your statement is even plausibly true? What does it say about you if you slander someone on no evidence at all? The standard for potentially slanderous statements should be that unless you can actually present evidence of the claim, then you should say nothing at all. What these examples show are people who are willing to spit out whatever pops out of their mind without any filter at all. This turns being wrong into a habit, immunizing oneself against the habit of always seeking the truth.

This is why I implore others to stick to the ideas. If you simply avoid all personal attacks, including those that are justified, then you can’t ever be guilty of slander.

The pitiful standard of evidence that we—as internet users—have come to accept is due, in large part, to the fact that modern men can’t be bothered to read more than 822.5 words per post. When methodology and rigor are equated with intellectual deceit, it necessarily leads to a habit of getting things wrong. Just look at Twitter for a prime example of this.

One of the key ways to detect propaganda and falsehoods is to ask whether additional information is viewed as a threat instead of welcomed. Truth seekers do not insist that others to present less evidence and fewer arguments and proofs.

For example, the 40-part series on the Eucharist is of value because it is well-sourced and detailed. If it were not, it would be of little benefit: about as useful as quote-mining quote repositories. That the latter are far, far more popular than the former should tell you everything you need to know about the state of modern intellectual discourse, which consists, in part, of an abundance of one-liners and memes. Notwithstanding this, my series would be even better if I had more sources and evidence to support (or oppose) it.

What I write is not a mistake or accident, nor is it an ad hominem: it’s a matter of metaphysics, of demonstrable epistemology.

His epistemology is such that he’s willing to assert as fact things that he cannot know or cannot prove, even things that are actually false.

In particular, he’s willing to use inductive inference—barely better than pure opinion—rather than take the time to use deduction. This is, to use an analogy, how pseudoscience is produced. Just as I don’t discuss science with the propagandists pushing pseudoscience, there is no reason to discuss theology with someone with this epistemology.

On this blog I almost always stick to pure ideas. The exception to this is when I am writing about propagandizing. The primary purpose of this blog is to expose falsehoods, even if those falsehoods are falsehoods about ideas rather than the ideas themselves (meta ideas).

After all this, they then proceeded to have a short discussion of  Part 1 of my series. But, because they didn’t engage with me directly here where no one is censored, they almost ensured that I would not know about it. Unlike Deti’s prediction, it turns out that most of this prediction of mine actually came true:

After I post this article, more than likely the critics will just continue complaining about me personally and show that they have no actual interest in me directly addressing the important topics … I’m sure this article will just going the latest in articles that are labeled as “screeds” and consequently ignored. I doubt I will receive any actual substantive engagement.

Personal attacks? Check.

Labeled as a “screed”? Check.

Receive no engagement? Check.

Now that I’m aware of the feedback, for my next post I’ll take the three comments from Jack, Deti, and Red Pill Apostle and address the actual substance of their retorts (if any) as I read them. Perhaps there will be something of value there other than ad hominem. If I’m very lucky I won’t be personally attacked for my response. Who wants to bet?

64 Comments

  1. professorGBFMtm

    ”Fourth, Deti is known to be right 99% of the time.”

    One of the things I like about modern Saint theDeti?

    ”thedeti says:
    2024-06-25 at 2:27 am
    The grift is as the grift does.

    The Warrior Poet Supply Co.

    Here’s the Warrior Poet’s site. His name is John Lovell. Buy his book, buy his tacticool gear, buy buy buy. Give him your money. ”

    He didn’t mind Roosh selling ”Bang” BOOKS or Athol Kay selling his ”M.A.P.-Male action plan” Book or Rollo’s three BOOKS.99+% of the info in those books was available for free from various Roissy=Heartiste wannabes-(let alone Roissy’s the CHATEAU with the often added bonus of MOSES, JESUS &GBFM) on their blogs in the Roissyosphere=MANosphere(they changed the name to make supposed ”Christian”-”respectable” husbands and fathers feel more ”Christian”, respectable & holier than unbelievers like Roissy who didn’t claim the Bible wasn’t sufficient for ”” Christian”-”respectable” husbands and fathers” to learn of GOD, MOSES &JESUS, as too many of the supposed Christian” ”leaders” said.

    It’s unfortunate when supposed unbelievers like Roissy=Heartiste have more honor & respect for GOD, MOSES,JESUS, and the scriptures than supposed ”Christian”-”respectable” husbands and fathers
    Do you think?

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “It’s unfortunate when supposed unbelievers like Roissy=Heartiste have more honor & respect for GOD, MOSES,JESUS, and the scriptures than supposed ”Christian”-”respectable” husbands and fathers.

      Do you think?”

      I do, yes. When Gunner Q called me out for citing the enemies of Christ—Bart Ehrman in particular—I could have just as easily pointed out that Bart Ehrman, for all his faults, has more honor and respect for God, Moses, Jesus, and the scriptures than a great many Christians. He may not believe, but he isn’t disrespectful about it.

      I’ve seen Ehrman make numerous invalid inferences and conclusions about scripture, but I’ve never seen him lie about it. Not even once. He has a legitimate reputation for intellectual honesty. You can cite him confidently, knowing that while he is wrong about many things, but he isn’t lying about them.

      By contrast, I’ve seen Red Pillers slice-and-dice the Word of God (in Ephesians 5) so finely that it would have been impossible for the original audience to have understood it the way they do. Even after I’ve pointed this out—so they can’t claim not to know about it—they continue to do it. That demonstrates a willful desire, a freely chosen decision.

      Speaking of Gunner Q, we part ways ideologically in that he’s very much an open-tent “don’t publicly disagree with other Christians, even if they are wrong, unless it is absolutely necessary” kind of person. I’m more of the “Save your biggest criticisms for other Christians, because Christians should be held to a higher standard.” My understanding of Paul’s instructions is that the latter is the more correct of the two methods.

  2. Lastmod

    This is why men….that vast huge pool of potential………dont come en masse to “Christian Real Manhood” blogs to get help, support or information. If they do as lurkers, they quickly find out its an impossible faith to grasp…no church is good…..no pastor is good…..they’re all “cucked” and “blue pill feminists”

    They see the massive, strident intellectualism of the faith, so much to learn, study and apply and then at the bottom “God doesnt promise you anything”

    And a variant sea of comments drifting now towards eugenics, and predetermination “its all predetermined anyway” or “if you are a Gamma or whatever; with lots of hard work….you may become a Beta (still sucks to be you) or maybe an Omega…dont worry, Jesus-loves-you-so-much and besides feminism destroyed women, and we’re powerless to do anything about it despite being “amazing men” with “leadership”

    And yet, the going on and on about how “we are helping men daily find wives and saving marriages and honoring men and Jesus”

    A simple faith made into a cauldron of Laws and Must Do’s and Don’ts just to get a date and IOI’s from women.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      ““we are helping men daily find wives and saving marriages and honoring men and Jesus””

      Without looking (that would be cheating) I would be willing to bet that the movie Fireproof has saved more marriages than the Manosphere.

      We could probably prove this by a simple google search. Count the public testimonials that we find in each area, see whether the movie or the Manosphere has more people publicly declaring that it helped save their marriage.

      I would also bet that the movie caused fewer divorces than the Manosphere. This probably doesn’t even need proof, as only the manosphere encourages men to divorce their wives.

      Let’s call this challenge “The Manosphere Dare.”

  3. professorGBFMtm

    More on Truth, MEN pretending to be women to get money from ”thirsty beta blue pill p@on tard chumps” and modern-day North American Churches from the modern-day Saint the Deti!

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-25 at 1:37 am
    “This question remains because the Red Pill is still equated to the likes of Andrew T@te”

    Andrew T@te got rich by ripping off other men by pretending to be a woman. That’s not my opinion, he bragged about it.

    The Red Pill is chock-full of con artists, thieves, liars, and grifters.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-25 at 1:42 am
    “The Red Pill is chock-full of con artists, thieves, liars, and grifters.”

    So is the modern day North American church.

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-25 at 2:42 am
    It’s almost as though there’s a good reason why Jesus warned us to…

    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.

    Matthew 7:15-16

    Here are a couple of major differences.

    It’s a lot easier to recognize the fruit a man produces when you get to shake his hand and look him in the eye on a regular basis.
    Jesus actually gives us objective, universal, eternal standards by which to judge said fruit.
    Good luck getting any of that from the Red Pill.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-25 at 2:58 am
    Can’t get that from most modern churches, either.

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-25 at 3:03 am
    You can from the Bible, which means you can find the churches that do follow the Bible.

    Again, good luck getting that from the Red Pill.

    Like

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-25 at 3:48 am
    Oscar

    Is your problem with the “truth” about male/female human nature aspects, what men and women find attractive? Or is your problem with the human proponents of said “truth”?

    Like

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-25 at 10:32 am
    “Is your problem with the “truth” about male/female human nature aspects, what men and women find attractive? Or is your problem with the human proponents of said “truth”?”

    My problem is with liars, thieves, con artists, and grifters who purport to be proponents of truth while getting rich swindling desperate men. I thought we were supposed to help these men, not make “but other people do it too” excuses for their exploiters.

    Did you watch the video? The relevant part starts here.

    I’ll even excerpt it for you.

    “I ended up opening a web cam company where girls would sit on a lap top and talk to guys on the internet for money. So, it’s like f__k that, I’m taking over. So I unplugged their keyboards and plugged a new one in with me behind the screen. Chicks would sit there and hit a keyboard that wasn’t plugged in, and me and my brother and eventually some staff I trained would do all the talking…. and they [the men paying for the service] are talking to ice cold hustlers! We were taking their money! All of it! We were miking them dry! I had these guys selling their houses, life savings, loans – all of it! – to me! Give me it all!“

    ~ Andrew Tate

    Please explain to me how that is a “proponent of truth”.

    Info says:
    2024-06-25 at 12:59 pm
    @Oscar

    More like well poisoning to me by making use of said “Truths” to swindle vulnerable men while on the other opposing side propose alternative false solutions.

    By this method associate actual truth with scammers and swindlers.

    Info says:
    2024-06-25 at 1:01 pm
    @Oscar

    The “Red Pill” helped break me of false scriptural interpretation. There are people who genuinely think mutual submission is Biblical as we have seen. And other things.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-25 at 8:33 pm
    I won’t accept shaming or false accusations that I’m making excuses for anyone. I’m not defending Andrew Tate or anyone else, and I think everyone here, including you, knows that.

    I’d like an answer to my question: Do you accept what red pill says about male and female nature, or not? Is it true, or not?

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-26 at 10:15 am
    I’d like an answer to my question: Do you accept what red pill says about male and female nature, or not? Is it true, or not?

    That’s not what you asked me. Here’s what you asked me.

    Is your problem with the “truth” about male/female human nature aspects, what men and women find attractive? Or is your problem with the human proponents of said “truth”?

    I already answered those questions.

    My problem is with liars, thieves, con artists, and grifters who purport to be proponents of truth while getting rich swindling desperate men.

    That’s my answer to your questions. It will not change, because it is honest, sincere, and accurate, and if I change it, that would dishonest, insincere, and inaccurate.

    I don’t play the game where you ask all the questions and answer none, so I’d like you to explain how Andrew Tate is a “proponent of truth”.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-26 at 8:11 pm
    You didn’t answer my questions.

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-27 at 3:14 pm
    You didn’t answer my questions.

    I answered your questions here, and repeated my answer here.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-27 at 12:35 am
    “I don’t play the game where you ask all the questions and answer none, so I’d like you to explain how Andrew Tate is a “proponent of truth”.”

    I already responded to this. I said,

    “I won’t accept shaming or false accusations that I’m making excuses for anyone. I’m not defending Andrew Tate or anyone else, and I think everyone here, including you, knows that.”

    I will not be bullied or goaded into defending positions I didn’t take. Ask someone else about Tate. I didn’t say anything about him.

    I’ll ask one more time: Do you accept what red pill says about male and female nature, or not? Is it true, or not?

    I’ll even ask it more clearly: Does red pill accurately represent male and female nature; how men and women tend to behave in relationships?

    Oscar says:
    2024-06-27 at 3:27 pm
    I will not be bullied or goaded into defending positions I didn’t take.

    “Bullied”? Seriously?

    Ask someone else about Tate. I didn’t say anything about him.

    My comment – to which you responded – was about Andrew Tate. Your questions (which I answered here and here) were…

    Is your problem with the “truth” about male/female human nature aspects, what men and women find attractive? Or is your problem with the human proponents of said “truth”?

    Are you saying that Andrew Tate (the subject of my comment to which you responded) is not one of these “human proponents of said ‘truth’”?

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-27 at 7:56 pm
    Oscar, you’re dodging, evading, and deflecting. You’re not answering my question.

    Im not going to defend positions I didn’t take.

    thedeti says:
    2024-06-27 at 8:38 pm
    I’ll ask this question a third and final time, and then I’ll move on. I’ll copy it here for you – again. A third time.

    I’ll ask one more time: Do you accept what red pill says about male and female nature, or not? Is it true, or not?

    I’ll even ask it more clearly: Does red pill accurately represent male and female nature; how men and women tend to behave in relationships?

    You can choose to answer, or not. But don’t come here saying you answered these, because you haven’t. ”

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “Info says:
      2024-06-25 at 1:01 pm
      @Oscar

      The “Red Pill” helped break me of false scriptural interpretation. There are people who genuinely think mutual submission is Biblical as we have seen.

      “people”

      Oh, oh! Pick me! Pick me! I’m a person!

      “false scriptural interpretation”

      Uh huh.

      …submit yourselves to one another in fear of Christ…

      “Did God really say that?”

      What do you think, should I just go ahead and retract my series? I really hope Info reads tomorrow’s post.

      I’ll ask one more time: Do you accept what red pill says about male and female nature, or not? Is it true, or not?”

      That’s a loaded question. Loaded questions should never be answered. If I were Oscar, I’d point out that it was a loaded question and then refuse to answer it. Oscar just refuses to answer it, which is a perfectly valid choice too.

      You can choose to answer, or not. But don’t come here saying you answered these, because you haven’t.

      Given that Oscar made it perfectly clear that he answered the question that he claimed to have answered and did not respond to any other question, Deti’s response is clearly sealioning:

      Question.

      Is your problem with the “truth” about male/female human nature aspects, what men and women find attractive? Or is your problem with the human proponents of said “truth”?

      Answer.

      My problem is with liars, thieves, con artists, and grifters who purport to be proponents of truth while getting rich swindling desperate men.

      Done.

      I know Deti hasn’t read this blog regularly (he is unaware of much of its content), but my article “Anonymity and Authorship” describes the related phenemenon of two main types of Manosphere bloggers: those who are anonymous and those who are grifters. Very few, like myself, are both non-anonymous and not-for-profit. Few such leaders exist.

  4. Derek,

    I appreciate your coverage of Σ Frame and Sharkly’s arguments, and also your diligent introspection. It’s good to set an example of introspection for other men.

    “It comes from the comment section under “Hypocrisy in the Manosphere,” an article which I’ve never read. In fact, except for a few comments, I hadn’t even seen any of the comments there.”

    “…he couldn’t even bother to get his facts straight about Deti’s false prediction, a prediction that I would write an article in response to an article that I’ve never read.”

    It’s a load of fun to see you cover articles that you’ve never read, including a commentary about yourself. Keep up the good work!

    As for ad hominem, part of the appeal (and this one of the secrets of being a good blogger), is to come up with new ideas and new insights on a regular basis. These insights have the power to change the public’s general perception of things, and it just so happens that it sometimes comes across as ad hominem, even though it is not intended as such. That is truly unfortunate, but it is a testimony to the power of our words.

    Best wishes~!

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “It’s a load of fun to see you cover articles that you’ve never read”

      I have done precisely the opposite, which is why the following statement…

      …and your concurrence in particular…

      …is demonstrably false. Do you have any comment on that?

      As for ad hominem … it just so happens that it sometimes comes across as ad hominem, even though it is not intended as such. That is truly unfortunate, but it is a testimony to the power of our words.

      When it comes to ad hominem, intention is largely irrelevant. So too the power of words. If a reaction is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining, then that is all that is required for it to be an ad hominem. Those comments above were directed against me rather than the position I was maintaining. To wit:

      “The standard for potentially slanderous statements should be that unless you can actually present evidence of the claim, then you should say nothing at all.”

      “…part of the appeal (and this one of the secrets of being a good blogger)…”

      My best and highest quality articles, for example this series, are proven to reduce appeal, just as it did for Timothy Kauffman when he did it. Popularity is not a useful metric for goodness, and so appeal is not one of the goals of this blog.

      1. professorGBFMtm

        ”…is demonstrably false. Do you have any comment on that?”

        ” As for ad hominem, part of the appeal of being a happily generic ”red piller” is one of the secrets of being a” generic good guy genius i.q.” blogger with a non-surprisingly lack of popularity and success without NOVA, Scott,professorGBFM & LastMOD, who must all return to my site as they are deemed evilz otherwise in my official red pill pope capacity”.

        Yeah like those who claim they were a ”good guy” who had a ”row” with someone that NEVER happened anywhere as the location was never discussed oddly, to cover up for their success and site-destroying ”headship swinger gay porn” post in September -2021 then you blame I and Derek for your supposedly ”Genius” populated sites lack of popularity and success.

        ”It’s good to set an example of introspection for other men.”

        Yeah, where did I get into a row with you over your well-known poorly written(even though you use the Greatest and latest in betaized and blue-pilled spelling apps-were they made by godly ”redpillers?”-then they are betaized and blue-pilled ), confusing, and voluminous comments and posts at ”good guy” Jack?

        Best wishes for NOVA &Scott to come back to SF Jack too.

        1. professorGBFMtm

          Sounds like a ”good guy” is setting someone up again to take the blame for being the ”author” of another ”success and site-destroying ”headship swinger gay porn” post”.

          Red Pill Apostle says:
          2024-06-28 at 2:55 am
          thedeti,

          “There you go. Tate’s a sh!tbag, but even sh!tbags tell the truth- and know the truth – sometimes. “

          There are times when sh!tbag humans are the most honest. They don’t care what you think of them and speak freely about what they know. What you see is what you get. I can think of a few examples of men who are beyond edgy, vulgar and don’t care what people think of them because they have “FU money”. Often there is no guessing about what they are thinking.

          Conversely, there are those that wrap themselves in piety to cover their deceit. GA’s former insurance commissioner is one that comes to mind. He was a bible thumping Southern Baptist on the trail all while taking millions in public funds to use for himself. I used to work at the same company with him on a job I had 20 years ago and he seemed like a decent guy outwardly when we had to interact. He’s now in a federal prison and will be for a while.

          Jack says:
          2024-06-28 at 2:58 am
          “There are times when sh!tbag humans are the most honest.”

          “Conversely, there are those that wrap themselves in piety to cover their deceit.”

          Brilliant wisdom here. Men take note. ”

          Why doesn’t jack be a REAL MANtm and claim 100% authorship for his love of ” ”headship swinger gay porn posts” on his next one?

          1. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Conversely, there are those that wrap themselves in piety to cover their deceit.”

            Religious bickering. Wrap yourself in rationality and then you won’t need to tarnish people for their beliefs and opinions. Deceit is irrelevant when you can just point out people’s errors. Plus, if it turns out that you are the one in error, you don’t make a fool of yourself.

  5. Lastmod

    “These insights have the power to change the public’s general perception of things, and it just so happens that it sometimes comes across as ad hominem, even though it is not intended as such. That is truly unfortunate, but it is a testimony to the power of our words.”

    Well, this could explain how they interpret the Bible. “Its truly unfortunate” but you know, the “power of words” kind-of thing. They sound like The Libertarian Party (which I am an a member of)

    “Area Libertarian gets appointed to local county water resources subcommittee board….John Smith recently got appointed to the local water resources board in Beckwith County, Iowa (pop 1,879). It is a non-policy position and is a non-voting position. The Libertarians are making steps into local counties, and towns all across America making a huge impact on the outcomes of local elections, the impact we are having is a testimony to the power of our message”

    Claiming a no victory as a huge one.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      Lastmod,

      I used to call myself a Libertarian. Loved the focus on liberty, individual rights, anti-tyranny, etc. I still do.

      But it became clear that the ultimate basis for Libertarianism is not morality—right or wrong—nor Christian ethics. They have a creed, of sorts, but it is a utilitarian ethic.

      “part of the appeal (and this one of the secrets of being a good blogger) … These insights have the power to change the public’s general perception of things … it is a testimony to the power of our words.”

      This too is utilitarianism: “The power of the message.”

      A few months ago when Bruce Charlton commented on Sigma Frame, he identified this same problem.

      What Jack describes—increased appeal and power—does not tempt me, not even were I to be offered dominion over the earth.

      Peace,
      DR

      1. Lastmod

        There was some real hope in 2000 with Harry Browne. No, he wasnt going to win the rpesidential race, but it signalled that the Liberatarian Party at time was on the “right track” of promoting and becoming a viable third party. GenX did and still does have a natural libertarian streak in them.

        I thought there could be a chance for viability in 2016 with Johnson and Weld (both former republicans from the revolution in 1994 and both left their states in much better condition than they found them financially NM and MA respectively). Johnson became a joke in a way….focusing more on marijuana use and trying to be hip for the younger vote. Weld would have been the better choice.

        It was a golden opportunity for people who didnt like Trump and hated Hillary. Ball dropped. Now? They have gone woke, wonkers and clown. Its a shame really, because that party SHOULD be a viable alternative and should be polling like ROss Perot did in 1992 in every main / general election

        1. Derek L. Ramsey

          “Its a shame really, because that party SHOULD be a viable alternative and should be polling like ROss Perot did in 1992 in every main / general election”

          People have said similar things about Republicans. The Democrats have not been running viable candidates in major races (e.g. Biden; Fetterman of Pennsylvania), but they win because Republicans consistently ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

          There is something structurally wrong with political organizations. Once I found out what it was, I completely abandoned politics for good and have not been back.

          1. Lastmod

            Even last night….political theater….you call that a debate? This what BOTH parties agreed to. Sofball questions. No audience. What a charade.

            And we call Putin a “dictator” last nights ground rules for the debate were actually stricter than the debates in Germany in 1933.

            Headlines screamin “Trump won! Biden disaster!”

            You thought Trump wouldn’t win??????? How could he not lose with the very sick man that was debating him? Poltical theater

          2. Derek L. Ramsey

            Something similar happened in the Fetterman debate. After his stroke, he was physically and mentally unable to debate, but he did anyway and he won the election anyway. The debates don’t matter except to fulfill their role as political theater.

          3. Lastmod

            We had two now very old Baby Boomers arguing about golf scores, arguing about who slept with who.

            Mass instability in the world, the USA losing its dominance on the world stage. Problems no one seems to know how to fix, except attacking the other side for their “failed policies” (what policies?)

            We have Depts and Agencies within the USA now that dont even answer to Congress, or are smug in their replies when called to Congress. A broken, clogged justice system. Economic issues. Fiscal policy.

            Is it no wonder countries like China, or Russia, or Iran, or even other small bit players are now chuckling and not even worried what the USA might say or think?

            Arguing about golf scores. I expected Trump to dodge that, ignore that. He didn’t. Still has to remind everyone how amazing he is at everything.

          4. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Still has to remind everyone how amazing he is at everything.”

            Just another example how “alpha” masculinity does not inherently lead to good outcomes, which is just another condemnation of the Manosphere’s obsession with Greek alphabet designations and ill-defined masculinity.

        2. Surfdumb

          Jason asks, who thought Trump wouldn’t win. I didn’t. I think the hearts and minds of most folks are captured by the media, and so I thought their post debate narrative would determine the outcome, and I thought that outcome would be Trump is still an undisciplined loose cannon.

          I thought everyone knew about Biden, and that he couldn’t harm himself even if he froze and mumbled.

          I was wrong. Whitmer will clean up in the September debate. I can’t see why they’d anoint Newsome over her. But I probably shouldn’t be making predictions in a comment where I am talking about a big wrong prediction less than 24 hours ago.

          I liked reading your libertarian recollections, you have a keen memory. Yep, seemed around 2000 was their peak. I don’t follow them now but am surprised to read you say they are woke. Too bad.

          Derek you asked me some questions that I want to respond to. I don’t know when though. Thank you for asking.

          1. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Derek you asked me some questions that I want to respond to. I don’t know when though. Thank you for asking.”

            I would sincerely appreciate any time you are willing to spend on it, but I’m not impatient either. Take as much time as you need.

          2. Surfdumb

            I was reading a sports blog this morning, and completely off-topic, someone brings up the debate. Oh my, too many responded with such hatred for Trump, “pathological liar and sociopath, etc” and then say, Biden is only senile. Implying that Biden is a victim, and that they themselves are righteous in their own eyes for pledging their 2024 vote to a victim instead of a morally evil man. So did Trump win? Based on what I am reading, maybe not if he doesn’t gain any electoral college votes. I was still wrong about the outcome though, not trying to sidestep it by saying , “in reality Trump lost because he gained no new votes.”

          3. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Implying that Biden is a victim”

            “Biden” allegedly sent 23 tweets during the debate, including this one. Any reasonable person would conclude that he is a puppet president—cognitively unable to perform—so calling him a victim might be genuinely accurate, just not for the reasons typically given.

          4. professorGBFMtm

            Hey SD stop running and d@cking from reality like your hero Sparkly and check this Deti comment to make sure he and Eos are ”Christian” brother!

            One other thing could Surf Dumb give me his analysis with a morally critical Christian red pill LENZtm of this Saint the Deti comment from over a year ago, please(for background on this comment from i-one time at spawnys SD thought I said I wasn’t Christian in a comment there)?

            ”thedeti says:
            2023-04-30 at 10:19 pm
            I can’t believe I’m going to writ this, but here goes.

            Scripture says that fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But what if this refers to people who make fornication a focus of their lives? People who “worship” fornication? People for whom fornication is an end in itself, and not a means to an end?

            What if it doesn’t apply to those for whom fornication is a phase or a means to an end? What if it doesn’t apply to men who fornicate because they want relationships, girlfriends, or wives?

            What if these boys’ and young men’s hearts are in the right place? What if EoS’ heart was in the right place? What if mine was? What if Elspeth’s was (and she fornicated with SAM and we all know how that turned out – a bigger lottery jackpot has never been won)?

            Fornication isn’t one of the Big Ten No-No’s. Adultery is. But fornication isn’t. The Big Ten says “thou shalt not commit adultery”. It does not say “thou shalt not fornicate”.

            Maybe the issue is “don’t fornicate after you committed to someone else”

            Maybe there is some play in the joints here. Some room for forgiveness. Some flexibility. Some accommodation. Especially for men, because God knows of men’s particular flaw/weakness in this area (p_ssy makes men stupid).

            Could be just male hamstering – but the fact remains that young people fornicate, now more than ever. The fact remains that men’s fornication doesn’t damage them the way it damages women. A lot of men come here and talk about how their premarital sex was ultimately borne of an effort to connect with another human being in the most ultimate and profound of ways. EoS has talked of this eloquently. My own experience is the same.

            Maybe it’s about the condition of the male heart.”

            Is that Christian SurfDumb(or not)?-even with a morally critical Christian red pill LENZtm from one who was just made a Saint(a ”Christian” one I would suppose) recently too?”

            You’re probably somewhat like Oscar who the most holy marriage in his mind, heart & c@ck Saint Deti called out yesterday though for not facing reality and staying in blue pill ville instead bro.

            “MOSES, JESUS &GBFM you asked me some questions that I want to respond to’ I don’t know when though as my ”morally critical Christian redpilLtm analysis” isn’t working so well.”

            Answer, when you come out of your bluepilled delusions and notions of reality brother is all MOSES, JESUS &GBFM want of anyone?

          5. Lastmod

            Thanks Surf. I am not a “Trump” fan. I find his slavish chanting “Trump! Trump!” followers annoying. Were things better in 2019? Yes.

            He handled the pandemic terribly as well….illegals were still coming en masse while he was president, we “just stopped counting” and hence, voila! The numbers dropped. No swamp was drained. Just a constant “Im the greatest president ever, better than Reagan, better than Washington!” statements. His cabinet bordered on the absurd. Better than Biden? Yeah, obviously but he couldnt beat him. Even with “election engineering” by the Dems he still couldnt get his message across. I blame his sycophant followers more for that than himself probably. If he was indeed that “great” the message would have overturned everything, including the MSM…which we hear DAILY has no control anymore…….well, except for this one area. Outrageous.

            A Mexican lady I worked with at IBM said once to me in the late 1990’s “People get the governments they deserve in the end”

            So true

          6. Lastmod

            This is where Trump’s team is not good for him.

            Trump being who he is should have NEVER agreed to this debate unless it was run like a debate.

            For example. Nixon in 1968 clinched the nomination. Johnson refused to accpet his party nomination in March 1968. After a crazy convention, ol’ Hubert Humphrey was the Democratic nominee.

            Humphrey’s team and the hostile to Nixon press “demanded” debates to be setup.

            Nixon had learned A LOT since 1960 with JFK.

            He refused to debate. His advisors said “you will lose Dick, you gotta do this”

            Instead Nixon setup Town Halls across the country called “The Nixon Answer” and many of them got top views for the time.. Not rallies. It included a panel. LOCAL journalists and press from where the town hall was held. The audience was not screened. It was televised. The panel included all kinds of people to ask questions.

            It worked.

            He wasnt going to play the game where he knew it was rigged against him.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dg6yfOpYYY

          7. professorGBFMtm

            Surfdumb1 day ago
            I once was reading the Spawnys blog one morning, and completely off-topic, some ” MAN/woman/it ” named Sparkly brought up that somebody is a bad guy and quite naturally and self-righteously I started cheerleading while applauding as I’m quite the well-known hypocrite ”red pill” NPC that lives bickering I approve of- there and everywhere. Oh my, this fool Sparkly whose site has been all but dead mysteriously since December ’21, h8t for professorGBFM, “ who is a Godly bigg d@nged good guy, who refused to keep my site popular” and then says, he himself the ”genius” is a well-known lying narcissist with a small d@ng who needs a reservation at Bellvue circa 2018-but goes without it because of hypocrite ”red pill” NPCS that enjoy being hypocrites.

        3. professorGBFMtm

          There was some real hope in 2000 with Harry Browne. No, he wasnt going to win the rpesidential race, but it signalled that the Liberatarian Party at time was on the “right track” of promoting and becoming a viable third party. GenX did and still does have a natural libertarian streak in them.”

          The only reason W. got elected was Elrushbo and ”Christians” claiming God had ordained him as the chosen one.

          ”Arguing about golf scores. I expected Trump to dodge that, ignore that. He didn’t. Still has to remind everyone how amazing he is at everything.”

          That former national ”our proudly but humble born-rich bum founder only smoked reefer in international waters, not sacred American waters” review’s bum and ”bluepilled ”leader” chump” David French is right that most”Christians”(especially ”redpilled” ”leader” chumps” will see a Trump victory now as ”Divine intervention”.

          It is W. again with more swagger and p@ssy-grabbing instead of the documented by the white house itself @ss and c@ck-grabbing with W. and that ”f@rmer g@y p@rn st@r” news reporter who he had ”closed-door”yet apparently ”open rear” meetings” as the white house records said- with almost daily in ’02 ?through ’03/’04 I remember from when it broke on the Savage nation in September ’04?Maybe Jack &Sparkly can elaborate on that on a joint -@uthored ”headship swinger g@y p@rn” post huh?

          1. Lastmod

            Oh yeah…I forgot W Bush was a devout “christian” masculine man who repaired vintage cars on the weekends, played sports with ease, worked out and was a mans man. Totally forgot about that 😉

            Recall if you will him in 2007 in Mexico on a STATE VIST at a vegetable packing plant. He packed some veg into a box and tells the media “doing this has been the highlight of my presidency”

            Here I was at the time, looking for a better job. Barely paying my rent in Fresno. Hustling between side jobs, working part time at 7-11. Staying clean. Here is the president calling packing veg into a box “the highlight of his presidency”

            I remember thinking “Gee…wow. Proud of you. 3K Americans dead on Sept 11. A “war” that wasnt going well. The housing about to burst (it was already showing obvious signs even then), Yale education, from a very established family in the USA and putting veg in a box is the highlight of your presidency”

            But gosh darn it! W Bush once invoked the name f Jesus! He’s “our guy”

            rolls eyes

          2. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Recall if you will him in 2007 in Mexico on a STATE VIST at a vegetable packing plant. He packed some veg into a box and tells the media “doing this has been the highlight of my presidency””

            Recall the time that Vice President Pence staged a dishonest photo op? I excoriated him in “The Lies They Tell Us.” After Stephanie thought I was being too harsh, I responded in “Partisan Lies.”

          3. Lastmod

            Yes, and Trump is evidently a christian well. He quoted the Bible “2 Corinthians” (as in two people)

            He went to a pro-life march. Ordain him immediately! Hail him to be our Moses!

            This man voted and endorsed Bill Clinton TWICE in the 1990’s. His divorce from his wife in the late 1980’s was of tabloid legend. Liberals loved him until he decided to run…not a as republican (both parties are almost the same now) but against Hillary.

            Hooking up with a pron star while married….oh yes the “we’re all sinners” defenses come out> His son Don Jr is married with a litter of babies meets Kimberly Guilfoyle (once married to Gavin Newsom), he separates from his wife and has Kimberly move in. This is manhood and masculinity now. All the cucked conservatives in churches across the USA who are blur pilled love Trump.

            Its such a farce. These people all of them are very, very dangerous people indeed.

          4. Derek L. Ramsey

            “All the cucked conservatives in churches across the USA who are blur pilled love Trump.”

            I was stunned when [redacted] Republican [redacted] [relatives] refused to vote for Trump, considering that Amish country went hard for Trump. Good for them though, standing up for principles.

  6. Lastmod

    I remember in 1996….oh, the press was worried. Worried! They were afraid that Bob Dole might go negative and hard on Clinton and him being “mean” would be “unfair” to Bill Clinton….who at the time was “the greatest president we ever had and had done so much for the country”

    It was just the opposite. Dole was pretty easy and light on his attacks, but boy Bill was unleased encouraged and cheered on by the “ever vigilant media” and they still accused Dole of being “mean” to the “greatest president since FDR”

  7. Derek L. Ramsey

    John C. Wright on the debates here. My favorite line:

    “If the Dems actually cared about identifty politics, they would promote Michelle Obama or Hillary Clinton over Harris. I rather doubt they care about identity politics, or anything they say, since falsehood is the heart of their doctrine, and words merely tools used to reprogram the meat robots they regard all mankind to be.”

  8. Lastmod

    The same people that uplifted Stephen Crowder. A guys guy. A leader. Masculine. Handsome. Did guy things like belittle other men he perceived weaker than him. Smoked cigars and played poker. He’s a “devout” Catholic evidently. Got the pretty wife. Had tons of sexual experience, test drives, dates and opportunities to vett / select THE ONE for him.

    She divorces. Its a mess.

    If Mr. Alpha cant keep a wife and make her submit because he is so “masculine” it makes me wonder again if its just actually about “free will” more than anything in these matters. Meaning, people choose to sin. Choose to end a marriage. Its not some ephereal thing called “feminism” that made her do it. Besides, Game teaches over and over “women cannot help what they do” and “need leadership”

    So you are telling me that Crowder was actually a “blue pilled weak man / cuck”?????????????

    I am sure someone will claim soon (if not already) that they knew from day one his wife was going to be no good.

  9. professorGBFMtm

    ”The same people that uplifted Stephen Crowder. A guys guy. A leader. Masculine. Handsome. Did guy things like belittle other men he perceived weaker than him. Smoked cigars and played poker. He’s a “devout” Catholic evidently. Got the pretty wife. Had tons of sexual experience, test drives, dates and opportunities to vett / select THE ONE for him.

    She divorces. Its a mess.

    If Mr. Alpha cant keep a wife and make her submit because he is so “masculine” it makes me wonder again if its just actually about “free will” more than anything in these matters. Meaning, people choose to sin. Choose to end a marriage. Its not some ephereal thing called “feminism” that made her do it. Besides, Game teaches over and over “women cannot help what they do” and “need leadership”

    So you are telling me that Crowder was actually a “blue pilled weak man / cuck”?????????????”

    Essentially,MOD? YES!!!

    Don’t you remember his bisexual phase coming back fears?

    ”Steven Crowder admitting to anger problems and fears about having children (from the bisexual video from 2018)”

    At least W. who was bi according to the white house records(who has ”near daily closed-door meetings with a ”former g@y p@rn star” news reporter?” or any news reporter for that matter.) didn’t act super macho except for that ”bring it on” stuff in NYC after 911.

    But as WE have seen in the sphere too often those who brag about all the ”sanctified” and ”unsanctified” s*x they get are BSING everyone like supposedly former ladies MEN Jack and Sparkly-who supposedly were so good with women but they got a dud for a wife?-they were ”tricked” as they say, but does that makes sense from their bragging of being ”geniuses” too?

    1. Lastmod

      They sound like women when they go circular like this. They also just remind me of bullies I knew in grade school and Jr high. Changing the rules during a game. A put down, a smear. Getting the “gang” to agree with them as well to taunt you.

      Nothing has changed. We’re just adults now (physically)

      These men with the means, the skills, the looks, the attitude have done more harm to the world, this nation and society at large than some mystical female goddess called feminism. In fact, most if not ALL these men reaped a lot of benefits from it with casual sex, dating and the like

      And now have the audacity to blame men like me for things being the way they are. Men like me who dont have any influence at all. None.The nerve.

      1. Derek L. Ramsey

        For any readers who think that Lastmod isn’t being accurate, read this thread on Crowder. You can summarize it this way:

        If a man and woman are not both attractive and virtuous, their marriage will fail. If a man’s marriage fails, there is a big chance it is because he wasn’t attractive enough. Sure, that’s her fault, but of course it wouldn’t have been her fault if he wasn’t unattractive in the first place. If a man fails to get a marriage, then it must be because he isn’t attractive enough (and/or possibly not virtuous enough).

        That’s basically it, in a nutshell.

        1. Lastmod

          Yes, and throw the muddling of the Greek terms, the genetics, the predetermination, the you need to learn Game. Ask God for a wife? No answer? God doesnt send one? Yeah, you asked wrong or for “selfish” reasons…..but lo! We Real Men of the Christian World obviously did ask correctly, but she rebelled, sespite they cannot help who they fall for.

          Red Pill teaches the truth about female nature (great, now what…ah, thats when Game come is, and we’re right back to 2002 using the same worn out jokes, hypnosis, secret cues, just being confident…….)

          Do you see how this goes around and around and around? Next time do this. Next time, do this step first, then do this.

          In the Bible it says A LOT “So and so TOOK a wife”

          It doesnt say, “Young Joesph prayed and prayed and prayed and asked God for a wife between the ages of 16 and 19 who was *hot* and was virtious, and would call him Lord”

          And now no sex means no marriage and is a grave sin

          Remember in the Gospel where the Pharisees come to Jesus, buttering him up “oh teacher, you are so wise and have insight into the Law”

          “Can we divorce our wives?”

          I dont know about you, but I get the impression…..and no, I wasnt there…..these middle aged, over educated, political / elite / elect class (for that time ) who are kinda creepy, shady, groady getting together beforehand “Okay, so we’ll ask Jesus if we can divorce our wives so we can get younger-hotter-tighter, and if he says yes……and if people call-us-out we can blame him saying ‘but he’s a rabbi and knew the Scriptures, we were just doing what HE said was okay'”

          And if he doesnt say its okay

          “we’ll continue our plot to kill him / gotcha him or write him off as some sort of heretic”

          Jesus astonishes them with something deeper ““What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”

          Everything was plain, simple. “When Adam walked in the garden….” Or “Suppose a man were given….” and “It is written ”

          It was these teachers. These mere men who complicated the law. Complicated what God indeed did say and added to it. Yes, the Bible says there are “contentious women” and one should be wary. Jesus told the “woman at the well” the truth about herself.

          He also said “Go fourth and sin non more!”

          This “red pill” lense is making it just about impossible for ANY man to find a wife, let alone have a go or step at trying to have a good one. And to the men who cant “take” a wife? Lost at love?

          Its your own fault! You should have been born better! Now love Jesus and serve him and do what we say!

        2. professorGBFMtm

          You can summarize it this way with the brothers Icecube,Boxer and GBFM on the mic tellin’ it how it is on the streets,word to your mother homies:

          I Ain’t Tha 1 Lyrics
          [Intro: Woman #1 and Ice Cube]
          Ice Cube, do you think you could give me some money to get my hair done?
          What’s wrong with your hair right now?
          Well you know I get it done every week, and I need my nails done too
          Look, I’mma tell you like this

          [Verse 1: Ice Cube]
          I ain’t the one, the one to get played like a pooh butt
          See I’m from the street, so I know what’s up
          On these silly games that’s played by the women
          I’m only happy when I’m goin up in ’em
          But you know, I’m a menace to society
          But girls in biker shorts are so fly to me
          So I step to ’em, with aggression
          Listen to the kid, and learn a lesson today
          See, they think we narrow minded
          ‘Cause they got a cute face, and big-behinded
          So I walk over and say “How ya doin’?”
          See, I’m only down for screwin’, but you know
          Ya gotta play it off cool
          ‘Cause if they catch you slipping, you’ll get schooled
          And they’ll get you for your money, son
          Next thing you know you’re getting their hair and they nails done
          Fool, and they’ll let you show ’em off
          But when it comes to sex, they got a bad cough
          Or a headache, it’s all give and no take
          Run out of money, and watch your heart break
          They’ll drop you like a bad habit
          ‘Cause a brother with money yo, they gotta have it
          Messing with me though, they gets none
          You can’t juice Ice Cube,Boxer nor GBFM , girl, ’cause I ain’t the onelzzlolzzzlolz

          [Interlude 1: Woman #2 and Woman #1]
          Girrrrrl, you got to get these brothers for all the money you can honey. ‘Cause if they ain’t got no money, they can’t do nothin’ for me but get out of my face
          I know what you mean, girl; it ain’t nothin’ right jumpin’ off unless he got dollars!

          [Verse 2: Ice Cube]
          Sometimes I used to wonder
          How the hell an ugly dude get a fine girl’s number
          He’s getting juiced for his ducats
          I tell a girl in a minute yo, I drive a bucket
          And won’t think nuttin’ of it
          She can ride or walk, either leave it or love it
          I show her that I’m not the O, the N-E, say
          I’m a ruthless MGT one O W
          ‘Cause I’m gamin’ on a female that’s gamin’ on me
          You know I spell girl with a B
          A brother like me is only out for one thing
          I think with my ding-a-ling like I’m a Jack ,Sparkly or Saint theDeti, but I won’t bring no
          Flowers to your doorstep, when we goin’ out
          ‘Cause you’ll take it for granted, no doubt
          And after the date, I’mma want to do the wild thing
          You want lobster? Huh! I’m thinking Burger King
          And when I take you, you get frustrated
          You can’t juice Ice Cube,Boxer nor GBFM and you hate it
          But you see, I don’t go nuts
          Over girls like you with the BIG ol butts
          It start comin’ out the pocket, to knock it
          But when the damage is done
          You can only lay me girl, you can’t play me girl
          For the simple fact that, I ain’t the one

          [Interlude 2: Woman #2 and Woman #1]
          I don’t care how they look; if they got money, we can hook up but they ain’t gettin’ none
          Yeah, I just make em think they gonna get some, play with they mind a lil bit, and get that money. Oh Ice Cube, can I have some money pleeeease?

          [Verse 3: Ice Cube]
          Give you money? Why bother?
          ‘Cause you know I’m looking nothing like your father
          Girl, I can’t be played or ganked
          Ganked means getting took for your bank
          Or your gold or your money or something
          Nine times outta ten, she’s giving up nothing
          They get mad when I put it in perspective
          But let’s see if my knowledge is effective
          To the brothas man they robbing you blind
          ‘Cause they fine with a big behind, but pay it no mind
          Keep your money to yourself, homie
          And if you got enough game
          You’ll get her name and her number
          Without going under
          You can’t leave ’em and love and stay above ’em
          I used to get no play; now she stay behind me
          ‘Cause I said I had a Benz 190
          But I lied and played the one
          Just to get some; now she feels dumb
          To my homies it’s funny
          But that’s what you get trying to play me for my money
          Now don’t you feel used?
          But I don’t give a hoot, huh, because I knock boots
          You shouldn’t be, so damn material
          And try to milk Ice Cube like cereal
          Now how many times do I have to say it?
          ‘Cause if I have to go get a gun
          You girls will learn I don’t burn
          You think I’m a sucka, but I ain’t the one

          [Outro: Woman #1 and Ice Cube(with Boxer and GBFM)]
          But you said you love me!
          I don’t see no rings on this finger
          Why you doin’ me like this? I love you!
          Yeah, you love my money; I got what I, Boxer, and GBFM wanted — beat it!

          You’re right Derek, Boxer did use to summarize life with late ”80s/early 90s ”red pill” rap @DAL’S!

          As well as how it’s time for ”red pill” supposedly ”patriarchial” lazy bum dads of daughters who tell ”other” MEN to ”MAN-UP” yet NEVER themselves take responsibility for destroying their daughter’s chances for marriage and a working civilization!

          Also:
          ”This “red pill” lense is making it just about impossible for ANY man to find a wife, let alone have a go or step at trying to have a good one. And to the men who cant “take” a wife? Lost at love?

          Its your own fault! You should have been born better! Now love Jesus and serve him and do what we say!”

          NO! NO!, NO! It’s the adulterers’ fault like the bragging ones that are less than stellar and insincere ye know you’re ones by their fed piller names ”jack”,”eos” & ”Saint theDetis” who make excuses for their filthy and perverted sins while telling ”other” MEN to MENZ -UP!!! for their daughters now!

  10. professorGBFMtm

    ”If a man and woman are not both attractive and virtuous, their marriage will fail. If a man’s marriage fails, there is a big chance it is because he wasn’t attractive enough. Sure, that’s her fault, but of course it wouldn’t have been her fault if he wasn’t unattractive in the first place. If a man fails to get a marriage, then it must be because he isn’t attractive enough (and/or possibly not virtuous enough).”

    The so-called ”Patriarchy” believers in the sphere have daughters who should be ashamed of themselves for not following Patriachial standards for their daughters and they are to blame for any failed marriages their daughter has while bullying and spiting on young MEN to step up=MAN up for their unworthy of marriage daughters.

    Yes, and throw the muddling of the Greek terms, the genetics, the predetermination, the you need to learn Game. Ask God for a wife? No answer? God doesnt send one? Yeah, you asked wrong or for “selfish” reasons…..but lo! We Real Men of the Christian World obviously did ask correctly, but she rebelled, sespite they cannot help who they fall for.

    ”Red Pill teaches the truth about female nature (great, now what…ah, thats when Game come is, and we’re right back to 2002 using the same worn out jokes, hypnosis, secret cues, just being confident…….)

    Do you see how this goes around and around and around? Next time do this. Next time, do this step first, then do this.

    In the Bible it says A LOT “So and so TOOK a wife”

    It doesnt say, “Young Joesph prayed and prayed and prayed and asked God for a wife between the ages of 16 and 19 who was *hot* and was virtious, and would call him Lord””

    Yeah still about so-called ”fathers” of unworthy of marriage daughters being worthless bums instead of respectable MEN, then they wonder ”why no marriage for my daughter?”.Cause ye cursed & despised the land and children that your God gave to your care with your greed, lust & stupidity!

    ”red pill” leader chumps” like Jack, Vox, and Sparkly can keep pretending to be friends with young MEN as the young in turn continue to stay away from their false ”teachings”!

  11. professorGBFMtm

    Hey MOD! It seems that at least two loudmouth leader chumps are starting to take personal responsibility for destroying Western civilization through their greed, lust & stupidity!

    ”Incentives Matter (Thedeti)
    No one seems to be able to figure out why boys and men are failing.

    How could this be happening?

    We’ve taken away every good reason there is to be a man. We’ve taken away respect. We tell men they’re less than worthless sh!t. Everyone tells boys and men they’re hated, not liked, not wanted, and unnecessary. We’ve taken away avenues of competition and success. We’ve taken away male spaces where boys and men can congregate and where boys can learn from men. We’ve taken away boys’ educational opportunities. We’ve taken away jobs and money. We’ve deprived them of the ability to earn money.

    Boys and men can’t even go up to a woman and try to strike up a conversation with them, without fearing police involvement. Women have made it crystal clear that all but the top 10% of men are considered totally worthless and undesirable. Superfluous. Not even really there. Invisible.

    They can’t ask women out. They can’t act like men around women. They can’t express frank and explicit sexual interest in women. They can’t get married; and if they do get married they can’t stay married. They have no right to anything they own. They have no rights to their children, not even to see them on a regular basis, much less direct their upbringing. They can’t even reasonably guarantee they’ll get anything at all from the marriages they do contract.

    Gee. Why do we suppose men are failing? Could it be because there are no incentives for men to pursue what was once known as ‘success’, and plenty of incentives NOT to?

    David French
    David French suggests a return to the cardinal virtues, and a “pursuit of [goodness]” for young men.

    And French thinks that putting increased demands on boys and men without even so much as the opportunity to get something for it, will somehow fix this.

    Why should young men be prudent, temperate, just, and courageous? What will they get in return for developing these virtues?

    If you want good men, you have to incentivize their creation.

    See, the entire point of requiring this character development in men is that they’ll get something in return. They’ll get recognition from their peers and respect from other men. They’ll get opportunities leading to greater status. They’ll get jobs and incomes and homes. And, yes, they can attract a decent woman and build a family.

    But that’s not the case anymore. Men of good character are actively punished and deprived now.”

    ”“pursuit of [goodness]” ?Some more of that classic Republican foolishness in otherwise for David French, but good on Jack and Deti for at least attempting to claim ownership of
    their part in destroying Western civilization and the sphere to boot!

    But Jack, Saint Deti, and French mention nothing of MOSES, JESUS nor salvation through Jesus atonement that had to come through the crimes humanity had committed through breaking the law that MOSES not NOAH according to one well-known ”loudmouth” ”leader chump” preached and wrote of. It just proves what Derek said before that they care not for JESUS nor the Scriptures which are all about him and NOT their filthy and highly disgusting ”greed, lust & stupidity that first highly stunk up the nostrils of God during the days of NOAH though which is why a certain ”genius” gets him mixed up with MOSES.
    Here is where MEN &woMEN had caused so much crime that their owner God to want to blot=wipe them ALL out:

    ”Genesis 6:7

    So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

    He was wanting to get rid of animals also for the human massive folly BUT :
    ”Genesis 6:8
    Noah, however, found favor in the eyes of the LORD.”
    &
    ”Genesis 6:9
    This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God.”
    &
    ”Genesis 6:10
    And Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.”
    &
    ”Genesis 6:11
    Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and full of violence.”
    &
    ”Genesis 6:12
    And God looked upon the earth and saw that it was corrupt; for all living creatures on the earth had corrupted their ways.”

    &
    ”Genesis 6:13
    Then God said to Noah, “The end of all living creatures has come before Me, because through them the earth is full of violence. Now behold, I will destroy both them and the earth.”

    Just like the Western Civilization & the Roissyosphere/ the supposed ”good guys” like ”French”,” jack” and”Saint theDeti” used as their personal trash pit for their sins, folly=stupidity, and ”ideas” that were meant to corrupt and destroy civilization and the owner GOD!

  12. professorGBFMtm

    Hey MOD,one of the main cheerleaders of the navel-gazing in the sphere as Western Civilization continued to burn over the last 13 years is predicting the happy future of it because of cheerleaders like him who told us ”All will be well just learn game and Donal Graeme ‘s ”Christianized” form of it known as ”redpill” LAPMS gibberish nonsense and marriage and western civilization will flourish thanx in large part to my cheerleading of DAL’S promotion of butthext over MOSES, JESUS &THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN”!

    thedeti says:
    28 June, 2024 at 8:13 pm
    What happens now?

    Current trends will continue.

    –average age at first marriage will continue creeping up (as of this writing I think it’s peaked out in 2022 at 30.4 for men and 28.5 for women). Here is how it’s breaking, more or less:

    average age at first marriage:

    1968: Men 23, Women 21
    1980: Men 24.9; Women 22.1
    1986: Men 25.8; Women 22.6
    1993: Men 26.1, women 22.9
    1996: Men 26.9, women 25.0 (the year I got married: I was just shy of 28)
    2011: Men 28.1 women 26.3 (the year I got to the manosphere)
    2023: Men 30.1, women 28.3 (the last year for which statistics are available)

    People will still get married; they’ll just be older, less fertile, a little wealthier, and there will be fewer of them. Marriage will become the province of the upper middle class and educated.

    –more and more people will remain unmarried; or divorce and not remarry.

    –reproduction will be increasingly decoupled from marriage. In other words, more out of wedlock births.

    –fewer women will have kids. Or most women will have at the absolute most, 2 children.

    –atomization will continue, resulting in more and more isolation and alienation on an individual and collective basis. Fewer and fewer “third spaces”, meaning places other than work and home where people congregate.

    –Women will double and triple and quadruple down on hatred of all but the top men. What is considered a “top man” will get more and more constricted and restrictive. The complaining will get louder. They will mercilessly shame anyone who rejects them for their Ns or their appearance or their conduct, or anything else. This will be only slightly less effective. They will continue to refuse to step up and do “dirty jobs” and STEM, causing the economy to collapse further. They will still have lots of sex with “top men” and some men adjacent to top men.

    –Men will continue their long slow slide downward. They will get quieter and move undetected in society. They will not marry as frequently. They will have less formal education, earn less money, have less sex, and be less social. They will avoid marriage, mostly by exclusion. They won’t qualify for marriage so they won’t try. More and more men will simply move through the world unnoticed, and will intentionally decline attention or a spotlight. On the occasions when they have sex, they’ll do so with FwBs, sugar babies, and prostitutes. More and more men will be considered “incels”.

    Yeah in large part cause of so-called ”Fathers”& ”red pill” ”Patriarchists” like himself,” jack” and their fellow fedpiller adulterer ”eos”!

  13. Lastmod

    Well, I theory I can agree with Deti here….

    However. The last point. Is it a slide downward now?

    Sex equals being a “man”? I mean, the “mgtow / incel / blackpill / whatever” community of men now seems “happier” than they were ten years ago.

    Not content, or wealthy or even established….but the rage so to speak is cooling I have noticed. Most realize there is nothing they can do about it. Even with “going to the gym” or “learning Game”

    Most are insulating within their communities / forums / games. Many are content so to speak with being left alone, especially the guys over the age of 35-40.

    Why play a rigged “Game” when the outcomes are so small for success?

    The ‘sphere still (and will never) admit their part in all of this.

    They shut most of these men OUT. Losers. Blue Pilled. White Knights. Cucks. They called them. They need to look in the “proverbial” mirror.

    They thirst, beg, Game, practice, learn, do anything for women to have sex with them. Notice them. Be it through a career. The Gym. Having (cough) masculine pursuits that women like. Their advice is all done to make her “submit” to sex on demand and tap and do what SHE wants or finds attractive in the end.

    This crowd hates 90% of most men. They can never improve, and with all the “genetics” and “predetermination” now set in stone. Why bother? ALso, they live in a fearful, angry, cold future of “Brave New World” with their Greek terms that belittle all men. Over the top intellect.

    They throw “The Bible” in as a cope or “virtue signal” to let everyone know how tied they are to following Jesus as all costs (they dont, they excuse so much of themselves and other men they admire) yet beat the proles and women with the Word.

    They can have it. They want this type of world….and evidently the future is for those who “show up” and sadly, the future they want doesnt involve 90% of their fellow men.

    Proud of them. They dont know what most men go through their age or younger. They are becoming the “Boomer” christians they bemoan. Out of touch, using groundbreaking ideas that are now cresting over twenty plus years

    And are mean…spiteful and angry.

  14. professorGBFMtm

    ”Sex equals being a “man”?”

    YEP! According to the Saint theDeti and Sparkly, it sure does. As the Saint known as Deti says here on Sparkly’s all-important ”Did JESUS have a sex drive similar to ”redpill” p@on tards like my self?”

    ”thedeti
    JUNE 28, 2024 AT 1:43 PM
    Did Jesus have a sex drive?

    Yes. He was, He is fully human and fully God. If he was and is fully human, and resided in a male body of flesh and bone (He did), then he had a sex drive.

    It’s just that that sex drive did not cause Him to sin. It’s just that He never sinned because of that libido. He never lusted. He overcame and mastered His sex drive.

    Male sex drive does not equal “bad” or “evil” or “base” or “unChristian” or “ungodly”.”

    As GBFM said about DAL’&Vox in the big years of ’12-’14, they are just trying to remake JESUS in their own Gamey churchian image.

    Also:
    ” Out of touch, using groundbreaking ideas that are now cresting over twenty plus years”

    Back in ’13 at DALS on that ”what is the Roissy/MANosphere?” post many were saying most new ”revolutionary” ideas then going around had already been thought up by the old gamers turned later MGTOW members Bonecracker and POOK{of the BOOK(coincidence? in regards to GBFM?- of POOK fame} between ’02 and ’06 or so even though POOK ended around late ’08.

  15. professorGBFMtm

    Hey MOD an ”genius” ”expert” still doesn’t know much after being around for years now.

    ”Intro
    Some time back there was an article or comment from Rollo where he predicted that some Christian would try to sanitize and package Red Pill theory for the average Christian. Looks like he was right.”

    A comment from 7187 under Dalrock’s post, Loud and proud complementarians: No more taboos. (2018/12/22) [Archive]
    I haven’t been able to find the statement from Rollo that 7187 was referring to. But anyway, Rollo’s prediction has come true in the form of the Christian Red Pill.
    {for Jack’s supposed ”geniusness” he doesn’t read at a fast speed like I do? Rollo had said that many times around 2012/’13 at DAL’S usually about Mark Driscoll power mongers i.e. your ”jacks”,”sparklys” and ”bgrs=larrys” looking to deceive young MEN into doing their bidding-since their lazy bums looking at porn all the time.)

    Slow Progress
    The Christian Manosphere / Red Pill has existed since 2012 or so, but it became a unique entity when it seceded from the secular Manosphere / Red Pill in late 2019-2020. At that time, I wrote,

    “In many of my past posts, I (as well as Deep Strength) have alluded to these differences between the secular Red Pill, and the Christianized Red Pill, but I haven’t analyzed the differences point by point as well as Biblical Gender Roles has in his series.

    The separation and distinction of the Christian Covenant structure from the Red Pill praxeology is an important and pivotal development. The Red Pill is largely an amoral description of human psychology and behavior, whereas the Christian Covenant recognizes human psychology and behavior, but adds to this awareness an aspiration to a God-ordained ideal.

    I propose that the Christian exegesis of Red Pill precepts should be called something else, just to be more specific and to avoid confusion in future discussions.”

    Σ Frame: Small Schisms and Large Schisms (2020/6/5)
    Four years have passed since then, and the Christian Manosphere has continued to roll back the frontiers of Christian Masculinity. Although we’ve made progress in many areas, we’ve yet to pioneer a new order that befits The Divine Order.

    (What is he worried about?i know of at least one fun old-time Christian MANospherian who is going to release God’s order of MOSES, JESUS, AND THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN soon-then see if sites such as SF can get nearly 200 comments like that post above that most likely given ”jack” false hope of a return to 2021-level success. )

  16. Lastmod

    They answered all of this themselves over the years:

    Your wife to be or date or GF has to want to “f*ck your brains out upon meeting you, or you….as a man are wasting your time because she is just using you for money or to stick the landing, and will divorce you anyway”

    Like I said. A amn just needs to take pics of his GF, bring it to the “tribunal of men” who have deemed themselves experts and they will “get back to you and let you know” if that look is genuine or not.

    The whole thing is sex based. All of it. I have seen comments saying it is or should “a grave sin if the wife does not give sex on demand”

    Nevermind what kind of sex on demand. Men have been told they will “die” without it. They will be lesser men without it. Its the reason why there is marriage, unless you do it “accidently” and then its “thankfully we serve a Savior that knows how to forgive”

    Basically, sin all you want in this area and just tell Jesus “you’re sorry”

    Unless of course you are a women. A low SMV man “creepy, blue pilled christian guys wanting sex….how dare them! Dont they know Jesus was single? We have The Bible for a reason. You need to follow it!”

    This is just high school redux. Popular guy get to do what they want. The rest of you had better OBEY.

    This is what the ‘sphere has become. Chest thumping guy. Men better than you and me, and they’ll tell you. Its doesnt matter your situation. What you overcame. What you’re working on. “They get more sex , dates, IOIs, opportunities than you. Hence, this makes them BETTER than you”

    The luxury of having stances like this could only happen in a “feminist” world mind you. If it was actually 1872 in Northville, New York State. These conversations would be moot. Everyone would be working or all would die during winter.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “I have seen comments saying it is or should “a grave sin if the wife does not give sex on demand””

      Not just a grave sin. Both Deti and Red Pill Apostle have stated that this is not only grounds for a man to divorce his wife, but that he is encouraged to do so, as recently as in the last week. No one bothers to correct them anymore.

      I don’t think I’ve seen much objection to this since Deep Strength and myself laid out how the Bible forbids a Christian man from divorcing his wife. Nor has anyone initiated church discipline since last I attempted it a year ago.

  17. Lastmod

    I believe….heck know…..how Jesus handled all of this.

    There was confusion with the “Law” in his day. There were constant squabbles and debates over which law and what circumstance. He made it pretty clear

    “Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, body and soul. Also love your neighbor as your yourself”

    Saying this to mere humans who indeed wanted to follow God or learn more about him did indeed clear up most (if not all of the Law) and make it basic and clear for them.

    Still, in this short, truthful and powerful statement Jesus sets a higher bar / standard actually for everyone.

    How hard is it to “love your neighbor as yourself”?

    As it is with God who loves us with our faults, shortcomings. How hard is it for a husband to “love his wife”? How can a man love his neighbor as himself when he doesnt even love himself? How daunting is it to love God with everything when sin seems to be “rewarded” all around you? Even in the time of Jesus this was a thing. Heck, even Israel was occupied by a very brutal empire when it came to taxes, order and submission. How could a people “love” God more than anything whjen said God “allowed” this to happen???

    I know its easy to say “well, just do it anyway / fake it til you make it” and “He’s God”

    How hard it was a slave in the time of Jesus or even the antebellum South to “love God with all your body, soul and mind” when you are actually in chattel bondange?

    Jesus makes it simple, but the standards and the bar are set very high. Expectations.

    We all wrestle with this (despite the claims from others that seem to “hath no sin” in their lives or actions)

    There were no churches, podcasts, not even a Bible, most were illiterate……few had means. Fewer even had the opportunity to talk directly with a priest, let alone Jesus in those times.

    Many just took the words that Jesus said and lived it. Because it was all they had

    1. Lastmod

      I have heard it said so much in church, by Christians of all denoms

      “God has an amzing plan for you”

      Well, with the 12 that amazing plan was pretty much being killed for the profession of him.

      John, whom “Jesus loved” (says this several times in The Bible) spent his end exiled to an isalnd in the Agean Sea. Left his family, and probably a life which would have been filled with family, grandchildren and community…….to follow Jesus and in the end…

      Hardly a Greek paradise on Patmos. He was probably driven half mad by the isolation. I know I would have been. Do you think he ever asked or pondered “For what was its worth in this?” He was even charged to look after Mary.

      And we see he held his faith by his final letters, but I strongly doubt it was easy for him.

      The rest? Died in horrible ways. We today…..and for a long time assume “Gods amazing plan for your life is to prosper, have a wife or husband. Children. Lots of love. Middle Class Stability”

      When that doesnt pan out, we blame women, or men, or others……..or you “didnt live God enough” or “you must have unrepentant sin in your life”

      And even more extreme now “Its all predetermined” and “genetics” and it indeed looks like God just loves some for no reason other than he is God or just dislikes others because “He is God”

      And the exmaple is indeed clear in the Bible and by Jesus himself by his teachings and his action on The Cross.

      The amazing plan IS God in of itself. Hard to swallow, hard to understand, and hard to accept. I ramble

      1. Derek L. Ramsey

        “The amazing plan IS God in of itself. Hard to swallow, hard to understand, and hard to accept.”

        God’s plan for many people is to experience suffering that leads to personal spiritual growth, and ultimately glorification of Christ and final glorification with Christ in the resurrection after death. Our purpose is to learn and to glorify God and to join him. Suffering may well be a part of that, as it was with Christ himself.

        As I’ve said many times, many a modern man is not interested in what Christ had to offer. He isn’t interested in suffering, let alone using it as a tool to learn, and he isn’t interested in glorification after death as the solution to suffering.

        Attempts to alter the course set by God—even if it is trying to eliminate evil or make life cushy and sweet—are violations of his will.

        When the manosphere admits that a man may be called to suffer and accept his suffering, then it will be worth something. As long as it tells men to avoid suffering by sinning—i.e. divorcing his wife—it will be worthless.

        1. Lastmod

          What is suffering then?

          Hard to define. We still live in place and time when we dont have to really worry about not having hot water, or medicine if needed to cure a sickness. We dont have to worry about being dragged out of a church by armed thugs, taken to the public square and beaten with rods and having your wife raped (Pakistan for example)

          Yet…we suffer. Christ suffered, and the people who followed him even “fled” in the time of his need….and he still loved them.

          He even corrected Peter after his resurrection. He asked him three times (the same ammount when Peter denied him) if “he LOVED me”. Peter being an “alpha male” had throw in the dig and ask Jesus after this “what about him?” (referring to John). I used to find it astonishing that Peter DARED aske this; and then again…..after the behavior in the christian sphere, I dont. Still wanting others to hold the blame for his shortcomings.

          “its feminism, its my x-wife, its the cuckservatives, its the church…it was them, not me!”

          Jesus pretty much sums it up “Im talking to you”

          Holds account. Again, very hard to swallow, accept, and live. Even for me for the fact I dont have .10th of of the Ego, education, intellect and comeliness that they do. Still…….Jesus will hold me to account and say “Im talking to you” it applies to all and some have forgotten that

          1. Lastmod

            Yes…..in the cold baseline of it. It is. Its envy.

            Again, they dont know any of the struggles that this Pastor Foster has. Or has had? Or perhaps overcame?

            Notice still, he TRIED to look at the Christian Sphere and Game and PUA…and STILL it “wasnt good enough, he has to accept Red Pill, Pollo, Game, Frame as we see it and live it and preach it to the men of his flock, or he is a cuckservative and isnt following Jesus and is blue pilled”

            Notice the standard they set? Its based in envy. Sex, dating, women, IOIs and all that is BASED in envy and preys upon men like me (and them too to an extent, because no matter how much they get….someone who they deem “doesnt deserve that” is getting more)

            Its a base, and easy way to get men envious of each other. I was guilty of it. Still am in a way…..but its different now. As I get older (mid fifties now) its not sex so to speak, or female attention….its children, watching them grow, dealing still with inetense lonliness at times.

            Im actually in a good place for that, Los Angeles is a self-isolating place by its nature and it does fit the life I have, so in a strange way….it works. I would be more deprreesed and perhaps envious MORE if I was in a small town, with a church full of familes and children, while I had to endure and watch this and be “happy” for everyone else while being told “God has an amazing plan for your life”

            So……sure, I am still sinning or have a problem here 😉

            But yes, the cold truth is envy and its something Jesus clearly corrected Peter on. Its not good, and its not of what he taught

          2. professorGBFMtm

            ”The Parable of the Workers: “I’m talking to you.”

            ———————————————————

            Would you describe this as envy?

            “What about him?”

            Jesus pretty much sums it up “Im talking to you”

            Yeah, Dalrock thought that all he had to do was copy his playa roommate and all would be fine as he said in the early days of his blog, then he got lazy like most of the guys that swear he’s a saint now, and his wife didn’t ”feel loved” anymore by him. And remember his wife was born in Germany(he was stunned by the not edited &censored by grim bothers versions of fairy tales) and was a virgin when they got married.IOW he thought if he just copied what he saw from his roommate in college ” he could make it through life” as he also thought in trying to copy Roissy=Heartiste later. Delusional thinking like other ”experts who came later, no wonder he =DAL’ failed hard after the crash of the sphere & him banning MOSES, JESUS &GBFM because of envious ”red pillers” like big crybaby and denier of reality, asd gamer-who thought Christianity revolved around the song of Solomon like most loudmouths in the ”Christian”-Roissyosphere.

          3. Lastmod

            Yes….because I was taught of how much Jesus loved me> How much he cares for me. He wants so much for me.

            Then we hear and are still held to “account”

            The fact that Jesus took the cross, suffered horribly. The fact he listened to his father, accepted his task and charge for “this amazing plan God had for him”

            It sounds cold, and it is. In this world of sin, and such contempt and yes….evil……God still expects us to walk. Father to son. Parent to child. All of us into a hierarchy of sorts. This is so rooted in the Bible and from the hebrew culture of its day.

            When the “elect” (self appointed or not in the Christian side of the sphere), because of the natural abilties God indeed bestowed on them. Be it intellect. Good looks. Leadership. Intellect. Whatever…….

            Jesus expect more of them with these gifts. For the socialism they denounce, they make it as if all a man has to do is “go to the gym” dress well, learn cocky-funny behavior, pee in the bed…whatever and all men have the “equal” outcome they have…..and per usual, if you dont get that outcome.

            You did not apply it correctly / you did not study hard enough / you did not go to the gym enough / you did not practice enough on women / you should have or could have

            and the clincher

            You need to behave like the world

            When in fact, in the end….a suppose a real christian would be “not of this world”

            Its a hard concept to graps, and I suppose that is why some put themselves away in seclusion, or had to wrestle with God. Had to question. had to wait. Had to suffer or perhaps had to model.

            The most wicked of sinners became one of the greatest. When Paul was blinded on that road. Jesus did not say “Go see my beloved Peter and ask him to baptize you, and sit at his footstool and learn. Talk to Mark, and Matthew as well.. They are my elect and priesthood”

            No. It was “Go see this nameless faceless believer in Damascus, and ask him to baptize you / pray / be the vessel to have the scales-fall-from-your-eyes”

            This faith or way was built upon the unknown, the common, the ignored. All would have to play a part, and it WOULD model his fathers house and kingdom.

            Something too many have forgot, or just ignore now.

            “I went to this seminary. I studied under this man. I had my life mission at age two. I speak Greek.”

            What it translates to, for my ears and too many

            “I am better than you” forgetting that they will be equal before the cross in the end. It doesnt matter how many children you have, or how many like you, or how much you can bench press or how much you studied.

            This way or faith is profoundly revolutionary and in my own personal prayers. Silence. It wasnt Jesus I rejected. It was the man-made faith and church that surrounded him. Well meaning as it may be or was.

            I am hoping that perhaps I could have that moment when Jesus does speak to me or tell me “You are on the right way” like he told Nicodemus.

            Notice when he spoke to him, he didnt order him “Now tell the teachers of the law that they must and will do this, and that, and will behave and do” He wanted a genuine conversion and relationship.

            I pray now that I may have this before I breathe my last.

    2. Derek L. Ramsey

      Well said.

      He made it pretty clear

      “Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, body and soul. Also love your neighbor as your yourself”

      Many just took the words that Jesus said and lived it. Because it was all they had

      The Manosphere is not inward focused, it is outward focused (“helping others”). I’ve shared this quote on more than one occasion, because it summarizes this distinction in the clearest way that I know possible:

      Jesus emphasized fixing yourself before attempting to fix another person:

      “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

      This is why the currently broken (including the divorced) cannot be teachers, preachers, elders, and leaders, until they’ve fixed what is broken.

  18. professorGBFMtm

    thedeti says:
    2024-07-02 at 3:24 am
    https://x.com/thisisfoster/status/1678757353263431681

    This is the same Michael Foster who just can’t figure out why women in their 40s with 6 kids and from conservative families and churches are divorcing their husbands for “a chance at a happy life”.

    This genius, this hyperintelligent man, who “studied” the manosphere, still can’t figure this out. He thinks it’s all the fault of social media and handsome players.

    No.

    It’s women’s poor character. Married to unattractive men and then they decide to go have some extramarital fun sex with good looking men. It’s YOLO and FOMO. It’s “I never got the chance to have this and everyone else did; so I’m taking my chance while I still can.”

    It’s women of poor character.”

    ”This genius, this hyperintelligent man, who “studied” the manosphere, still can’t figure this out. He thinks it’s all the fault of social media and handsome players.”

    Saints in the sphere should take their own advice!😉😁😊😎

  19. professorGBFMtm

    Hey MOD here’s one of those old-time good-time rock ”n” roll (as elrushbo used to say with his formerly nicotine hands)-Dalrockians that had been living in a bubble their entire life until their wife divorced them.

    ”locustsplease says:
    2024-07-03 at 12:12 am
    I partially disagree Christian women are having trouble finding husband’s who aren’t masculine enough. I think women have been trained for decades and their moms to find soft men. They don’t even associate masculinity with Christianity. While I may have many sexual options in or out of church that doesn’t mean women are interested in me. I am a business owner father to a teenager oponiated and a dictator.

    The more I look the more I see it. Pretty girls their moms are attractive and their dads are soft af! They want a man with just enough testosterone to work and lead a church group and zero more. I am not this person. Also my church is mostly white collar and and most American women are getting degrees so this is not unusual. But I have been quietly rejected by women based on them finding I do labor. Of course I don’t tell them I make 6fig. Not gonna beg them. Honestly there was 1 non college educated attractive young women who came around a group and she got swooped up like a piece of bread at the duck pond.

    Christian men almost have a public shaming about sacrifice to their wives that I will not participate in. Where they expect nothing in return except more sacrifice. I would rather b alone. I can think of 3 occasions i told a single girl a truth she didnt want to hear that would solve her problem. All 3 times they shut down and avoid me after. They want to hear about god and such but never any actual flaws. I don’t know if this makes any sense.”

    ”I can think of 3 occasions i told a single girl a truth she didnt want to hear that would solve her problem. All 3 times they shut down and avoid me after. They want to hear about god and such but never any actual flaws. ”

    I had done and known similar to the above by the time I was 18yo but these guys don’t ’til their wife divorced them in their 30s/40s-bubble living delusional dudes like Sparkly, Jack, and the Saint Deti. Didn’t know about real life until they heard about game and DAL’-SAD &childish like Sparly rolls with his hand sodomy(his bosom buddies the Puritans would say he was execution-worthy like he says of his wife and others).

  20. professorGBFMtm

    If the dudes at Spawnys cared about Sparkly they would encourage him to go to Bellvue.
    But this post is probably a hint to him.

    ”Therapy For Men
    Posted on 2 July, 2024 by Farm Boy — 10 Comments
    1 Vote

    A long time ago, my ex wanted me to get therapy. We were separated at the time. I was also mostly blue pill. So I thought about it. I had two big questions,

    What exactly was I getting therapy for? What I needed was someone to explain some red-pill truths to me, or at least some that were on the path to the red pill, but I didn’t know it. You see, the blue pill programming was strong in my generation.
    How would I find a good therapist? I figured that most were mushy types that were as likely to do harm as good. Probably there were some useful ones out there, but it was a stab in the dark. So I did nothing on this front.
    And as you see, she is now my ex. But, back to therapy. Is it a good thing? I haven’t ever had it, so maybe I am not the best at assessing. Maybe commenters can chime in. However, I might suggest that when shopping for one, start by looking at how realistic their world view is. If you don’t have this, you don’t have anything.”

    Also, a certain Saint that has been habitually wrong for 13+ years in the sphere has this to say:

    thedeti says:
    2 July, 2024 at 4:27 pm
    FB’s situation is typical of wives who demand that their husbands or STBXs “get therapy”. It’s usually a condition of reconciliation, and so in that case therapy is being used as a cudgel.

    If a man plans on therapy or decides he needs it, it should be for him and only him. If he is seeking therapy because someone else demands it or as a condition of a continued relationship, these are wrong reasons to seek therapy.

    A man should not have a female therapist. Full stop. Women cannot help men with mental/emotional health. Period. End of discussion. Women will invariably give men feminine-centric advice, have him talking endlessly about how he feels and not about what he can do about the problem, and have him jumping through hoops to please women around him. None of these things are helpful for men.

    Therapy for a man should not be him coming to a therapist once a week or every other week for him to moan and whine and complain about all his bad feelings. Men don’t feel better when they “give a space for their feelings”. Men usually find themselves needing “therapy” because they have a problem that needs solved, and they either (1) don’t know how to solve it; or (2) believe they don’t have the power, authority, tools, or wherewithal to solve it; or (3) don’t want to do what it will take to solve it.

    Men are better when they are empowered to take action to solve problems. Therapy for men should be focused on assessing the problem and then giving him concrete action steps. If (1) is his problem, he is shown how to solve it and given concrete steps. If (2) is his problem, he is encouraged to take authority over it and given concrete steps on how to solve it. If (3) is his problem, then the solution is as simple as telling him to accept where he is. If he doesn’t want to do anything to solve the problem, then he needs to be told clearly to shut up and accept his fate; and if he ever decides he is willing to solve the problem, he can return for steps on how to do so. Acceptance of where a man is; acceptance of his own self-imposed suffering; is in itself a solution.

    Malecentric therapy should be focused on assessment, diagnosis, and formulation of an action plan. The problem is X. The diagnosis is Y, and here is the course of treatment. The man should see improvement within 3 months if he is doing what the therapist has planned out. If he has not improved in 3 months, then the diagnosis is wrong or the patient is not following the plan. Back to the drawing board.

    For example: Man is depressed, can’t concentrate at his job, overweight, and not sleeping well. Diagnosis: Major depression, possible eating disorder. Plan: You will make a list of things you will do at your job. You will do as many of them as you can, working steadily and minimizing distraction. You will eat regular meals and limited to certain foods. You will limit or eliminate alcohol. No more than X number of drinks per week. No weed, no illegal drugs. You will go to bed at the same time every night.

    If that doesn’t work, if there is no improvement in 3 months, then the diagnosis is wrong or the patient is not following the plan.

    Or, maybe, the plan is simply to tell the patient “since you do not want to do what it will take to get better, you should accept your depressed mood, your unhappiness, your poor work performance, and your poor health. Simply accept them and find peace in them.”

    The point is that therapy for men must be action based and action focused. Here is the problem. Here is the solution. The man must do things to solve the problem. Sometimes he needs help figuring out what the problem is. Sometimes he needs help figuring out what the solution is and how to implement it. In any event, he must be encouraged to decide, and then act.

    &

    thedeti says:
    2 July, 2024 at 4:36 pm
    I didn’t find it useful over time though, as my depression was chemically induced, rather than situationally induced.

    What do you mean “chemically induced”? Do you mean hormone imbalance? That kind of depression almost always responds to drug therapy. Used to be lithium; might be other things now. Also, that kind of depression almost never responds to talk therapy or to handling situations.

    Situationally induced depressions are almost always repeated mental/emotional traumas because a childhood need wasn’t met, leading to post traumatic stress disorders (don’t laugh- these are a thing). The other major cause of situationally induced depression in boys is presenting as a comorbidity in ASD level 1 (what they used to call Aspergers and before that, PDD-NOS (pervasive developmental disorder-not otherwise specified)).”

    Sparkly’s, Lizs, Elspeths, and my so-called ”friends”(they barely cared when Liz and Elspeth got attacked at Spawnys by ”friends” and both of them left just as I had before because of the well-known tolerance of bullying there, as I did happily later for good too or that Sparkly needed to be told to zip it and ”be quiet and under Authoritah” (of those that are NOT insane or as highly delusionally blue pilled as himself)-that’s how Sparkly spells it-until doctors unzip his much needed straight jacket in his padded cellat Spawnys as one former polite Spawnite said of’ em are more likely to be @sses than to have Aspergers or ASD as the Saint said above.

  21. Lastmod

    Therapy in my personal opinion is a racket.

    Therapy is a culture that has too much free time on its hands in general. Do people need therapy? Sure. Some do. Sometimes its helpful. Or it can be I suppose.

    Here in LA, everyone is in “therapy” or is seeing one, or a shrink. The office towers in Studio City and west Los Angeles are filled with them. Business is brisk evidently and yet….and yet……lives are still a mess, or “out of control”. Drugs are prescribed like candy.

    I found the basic talk therapy or “group” like AA and NA to be helpful. People like you, who are tackling the same issue as you can and is helpful.

    Paying a person 100.00 plus an hour to talk about how bad it is for you is more like a “confessional” to a Catholic priest or the like to me. The prist affirms your bad behavior, tells you are forgiven….and you continue perhaps (most likely) with the behavior because someone with authority said it was okay, or society’s fault, or someone else’s fault.

    Throw in the “worshipped” Myers-Briggs and you have an additional mess. Its a horrible metric and test, geared to a post-war economy that was mostly men coming home from military service and for “professionals”. The guy who got a job on the line at the Chrysler plant was not given the Meyers Briggs to “utilize his potential to the fullest” nor a department store salesman in the mens department. Nor a plumber, or a carpenter.

    It was made for the burgeoning “professional” class. It has been used for almost everything today, including to “justify” your poor manners or behavior at work because “this test says this is the way I am, and YOU Mr. Employer accommodate to ME”

    Aside from the “carved in stone, unmovable, unchangeable personality type” it was only to be a guide or a framework. Notice too, everyone today seems to be the rarest type of personality INFJ. As if. Its a bad test, and like the psychologists and the like who built it, therapy too is “soft science” dealing with variables as wide as the human experience.

    The lock it into a few models from the 19th century with a moot scientific method watered down for its “proof” and today…prescribe pills. What do people expect?

    I’ve been to TWO therapy sessions in my life. Both were men. Both said “okay, so in order for us to continue, I am recommending you for this or that medication”

    I asked why, and of course told I needed it. I paid 350.00 for an hour for you to tell me that I need “pills” to function in society. Eff off.

    No thanks.

  22. professorGBFMtm

    Hey MOD you’re describing my old best ”friend FB=Farm Boy @Spawnys-who wrote that above post(who says he’s an INTX/F?or some such letters- he’s been talking like that since around early-mid ’13 @SunshineMARY’S blog-he was also very surprisingly a big fan of Vox back then too. ) here:

    ”Throw in the “worshipped” Myers-Briggs and you have an additional mess. Its a horrible metric and test, geared to a post-war economy that was mostly men coming home from military service and for “professionals”. The guy who got a job on the line at the Chrysler plant was not given the Meyers Briggs to “utilize his potential to the fullest” nor a department store salesman in the mens department. Nor a plumber, or a carpenter.

    It was made for the burgeoning “professional” class. It has been used for almost everything today, including to “justify” your poor manners or behavior at work because “this test says this is the way I am, and YOU Mr. Employer accommodate to ME”

    Aside from the “carved in stone, unmovable, unchangeable personality type” it was only to be a guide or a framework. Notice too, everyone today seems to be the rarest type of personality INFJ. As if. Its a bad test, and like the psychologists and the like who built it, therapy too is “soft science” dealing with variables as wide as the human experience.”

    The government created the G.I. bill ”because otherwise there would have been mass unemployment from all the millions of guys coming back at near the same time from WW2” as 73 magazine’s founder Wyne Green said around 2000.

    ”I’ve been to TWO therapy sessions in my life. Both were men. Both said “okay, so in order for us to continue, I am recommending you for this or that medication”

    I asked why, and of course told I needed it. I paid 350.00 for an hour for you to tell me that I need “pills” to function in society. Eff off.

    No thanks.”

    Yeah, I remember when the first pre-teen and teen boys I knew of were being pushed onto Ritalin and other ones back in the late ’80s/early ’90s.

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