One of my more common criticisms of the Christian (or Dalrockian) Manospherian commentariat is the relative popularity of, what I’ve termed, weak patriarchy. Patriarchy proper involves strong gender roles built upon male dominance and female submission. But in a non-patriarchal culture, one with egalitarian laws, patriarchy just isn’t possible, even theoretically within a marriage where both partners consent to it. Thus, the inevitable compromise is weak.
Part of the problem is that Manospherian men have no idea what an actual patriarchal system is. They just see patriarchy in the cultures of the Bible and say “I want that!” without any idea what this actually entails. This is why you don’t see them converting to Islam, despite their claim to want deeply want patriarchy.
Ultimately, when true patriarchy is implemented in the historical mode, modern men find it horrifying.
Yatta, near Hebron
Reports say a young Palestinian boy with special needs was tied to a wall by his Palestinian relatives over a small theft.
They then beat him with rubber cables as he bled and begged them to stop — while neighbors and family laughed and filmed
So, some cultural context for this. Westerners may be asking themselves: sure, abuse of special needs children by their own families happens everywhere, but what’s the deal with filming it like this?
Well, let me introduce you to intensive patrilineal kinship! Or “tribal cultures” for short.
In Palestinian society – and similar tribal cultures – all extended paternal kin within a family (AKA: the clan) are treated as a corporate entity. That is: if one member commits a crime, all members are responsible for it. And the only way to purge this corporate guilt is by publicly and viciously punishing members who have stepped out of line.
In such societies, the reputation of one’s clan (AKA: its honor) is absolutely everything. A well-regarded clan is one who other clans will do business with, cooperate with, and respect.
If the clan’s reputation is tarnished, however, then the entire clan serves to lose because of it. This can have serious financial implications, as clan members lose contracts and customers, and can even result in violence if the infraction is deemed severe enough.
So, what these men are doing is purging the “shame” of the boy’s petty theft by sadistically punishing him and recording it for their community to see. To Western eyes, this looks like an act of pure evil.
But to “tribal” eyes, this looks like justice. By treating their own kin this way – and doing so with gusto – these men are proving their sincere commitment to upholding community norms.
It’s the exact same logic that leads to “honor killings” of female kin who are believed to have defied these norms. (I say “believed”, because actual “guilt” is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is a rumor being spread widely enough.)
In other words, it’s a cultural framework that incentivizes horrifying acts of abuse and evil, while making the evildoers feel righteous.
Here are some of the features common to a patriarchal system.
First, the patriarch is responsible—has full agency—for whatever occurs within his domain of authority. This includes his wife, children, sons, daughters, servants, slaves, his animals, and even his property. It doesn’t matter at all if they do it. So, for example, if a wife does something terrible, you’ll hear no whining about female agency from the patriarch, nor will you see him throwing up his hands by blaming her for it. Whatever she does, he is fully, 100% responsible for dealing with as if he had committed the infraction himself.
The modern Manosphere is full of men who (1) shift the blame for the women under their domain away from themselves; and (2) complain about—and try to take responsibility for—women outside of their domain. This ceding of agency to underlings and women is a common symptom of weak patriarchy.
Second, the role of the patriarch transcends secular government law. Real patriarchs do what needs to be done regardless of any laws that might stand in their way. This is why you can’t pass laws to ban honor killings and expect the behavior to cease.
By contrast, while a very small fraction of men in the Manosphere will risk bring up corporal punishment of wives, the vast majority will never actually do it. A number of bloggers explicitly banned the discussion. So while the Manosphere will preach a good sermon on the subject of submission of wives to husbands, when it comes down to it, modern weak patriarchal men won’t risk facing the power of the State by enforcing it. Weak patriarchy means men submit.
For example, when a man is confronted with a Karen, the man must back down. If he strikes her, he’ll go to jail and his life will be ruined. So much for patriarchy!
Third, patriarchal men are identifiable. The whole point is that you know who they are and you know what their domain is. It’s flashy and reputation-based. In patriarchal systems, one’s name is one’s power.
By contrast, proponents of weak patriarchy are almost all anonymous. Fear of persecution is the most commonly cited reason.
Fourth, patriarchal systems often involve harsh and extreme punishments. The purpose is to strictly enforce boundaries. Even the slightest infraction against the social norms must be punished severely. Shame plays a huge role too. But, notably, it’s not about justice. It’s about making the patriarch feel righteous. His duty is ultimately towards his own reputation (and that of his family), not an objective right or wrong.
In this, patriarchy resembles leftism which is extremely tribal. The biggest sin of leftism is disagreement with the established norm. Right and wrong don’t factor into it. This is why the Manosphere bears so many similarities to leftism, for it employs the same tribal tactics as the left. But, unlike the left where tribalism is intended to crush the opposition, right-wing tribalism invariably leaks to cucking to “lower the temperature” and “find common ground.” This is one more reason it is weak patriarchy. The greatest irony is that modern leftist feminists are stronger, more effective “patriarchs” than those who preach patriarchy.
Fifth, patriarchal systems are inherently community-based and tribal. They are group-oriented. There is no room for the individual in a patriarchal system.
At the core of the patriarchal Manosphere are individual men who have been isolated from community supports. They lack a common geography, religion (including, among Christians a common denomination or bible translation), culture, ethnicity, etc. Not only do they share little in common, but most proponents are anonymous, preventing any sort of meaningful human bond. In short, the Manosphere is a fully non-tribal, egalitarian group of individual men coming together under common cause to support a single ideology.
Patriarchy, as a pure ideology, is incredibly weak. By contrast, practical patriarchy is incredibly strong. Despite only making up a minority of the population, Islamists have essentially taken over in the UK. Muslims in the UK didn’t stand around talking about patriarchal ideology, rather, they banded together as a community and acted. The Manosphere will never be able to do this because it’s stuctured around the individual man.
Weak patriarchy differs from patriarchy in that the latter is a complete way of life. You can’t simply buy in to patriarchy with an ideology. You have to conquer, marry into, or submit to the patriarchal life. The weak patriarchy of the Manosphere does none of these. Each Manosphere man thinks that he’s supposed to be the leader of his own tribe, rather than merely one of the patriarch’s men (or harem boys). Once I demanded that some of these men submit to my leadership, to fall under my patriarchal domain, but they declined. They’ll decline every real opportunity to be part of a patriarchal system.
Last year, there was a discussion about the expectation that a man’s girlfriend would submit to his authority and only his authority. If she didn’t submit to his frame, he’d dump her. How manly! High-five! I pointed out that in a real patriarchy, a boyfriend would not demand that she submit to him, but rather would demand that she submit to her father as a precondition to date her. Absent that, he should have nothing to do with her. Unsurprisingly, nobody admitted that their weak patriarchy was self-refuting LARPing. One person couldn’t even understand what the problem was! Another’s response is discussed here:
If you don’t think that it is necessary for her to be under her father’s authority, then you don’t think father rule is essential. You don’t believe in patriarchy.
Weak patriarchy is the implicit denial of real patriarchy. It is the belief that father (husband) rule is not essential. That’s the bottom line.
First, the patriarch is responsible—has full agency—for whatever occurs within his domain of authority. This includes his wife, children, sons, daughters, servants, slaves, his animals, and even his property. It doesn’t matter at all if they do it. So, for example, if a wife does something terrible, you’ll hear no whining about female agency from the patriarch, nor will you see him throwing up his hands by blaming her for it. Whatever she does, he is fully, 100% responsible for dealing with as if he had committed the infraction himself.
The modern Manosphere is full of men who (1) shift the blame for the women under their domain away from themselves; and (2) complain about—and try to take responsibility for—women outside of their domain. This ceding of agency to underlings and women is a common symptom of weak patriarchy.
Second, the role of the patriarch transcends secular government law. Real patriarchs do what needs to be done regardless of any laws that might stand in their way. This is why you can’t pass laws to ban honor killings and expect the behavior to cease.
By contrast, while a very small fraction of men in the Manosphere will risk bring up corporal punishment of wives, the vast majority will never actually do it. A number of bloggers explicitly banned the discussion. So while the Manosphere will preach a good sermon on the subject of submission of wives to husbands, when it comes down to it, modern weak patriarchal men won’t risk facing the power of the State by enforcing it. Weak patriarchy means men submit.
For example, when a man is confronted with a Karen, the man must back down. If he strikes her, he’ll go to jail and his life will be ruined. So much for patriarchy!
Third, patriarchal men are identifiable. The whole point is that you know who they are and you know what their domain is. It’s flashy and reputation-based. In patriarchal systems, one’s name is one’s power.
YEP!
My so-called (extended) ”family” definitely knew my name & my flashy & reputation-based ”fux-u”-style of rolling=action just as the weak ”patriarchs” in the modern sphere do too by my similar patriarchy tactics against their emasculated,pussyfied churchian soccerdad SJW ”patriarchy” !
What song has described my patriarchal life & that i had NEVER heard until summer 2004?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btDjZMXDHPc
I gotta reputation
People know who I am
Rules are made to be broken
Can’t kill what you don’t understand
I see you runnin’ scared
I never knew you cared
Go and hide your head in the sand
Been to hell and back
I survived and that’s a fact
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna do
My New Year’s resolution
Is a always the same
Gonna do what I like
We’re gonna do what I want
‘Cause it’s just my way, yeah
I don’t live for tomorrow
‘Cause at the end of the day
Gonna shout it from the roof
Better face up to the truth
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna do, yeah
Don’t need a invitation
I don’t play hard-to-get, no
Well, I’m fame they claim
I can’t be tamed
You know it doesn’t matter
I swear if I like
I wear what I want
It’s my life
(Oh yeah)
And I’ll do what I wanna
(It’s my life)
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
(Oh yeah)
It’s my life
And I’ll do what I wanna
(Do what you like)
Do what I wanna
(Do it, do it, do it)
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
It’s my life
(It’s my life)
And I’ll do what I wanna
Do what I wanna
Do what I like
”I gotta reputation
People know who I am
Rules are made to be broken
Can’t kill what you don’t understand
I see you runnin’ scared
I never knew you cared
Go and hide your head in the sand
Been to hell and back
I survived and that’s a fact”
See how i live out those words while poseur ”RP” ”patriarchs” LARP, complain(like the women and incels they supposedly are NOT & supposedly ”better” than too?) and waste yet another day away?
That’s the bottom line.
Or is it this?
& what JESUS said in response to it?
13Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you.” And his servant was healed at that very hour.-Matthew 8 -Berean Standard Bible
It kind of makes you wonder about what the muslim TFH/Anon(the main one saying it between 2017 & 2019 at ST.DAL’S) is right about the lack of faith in the Christian (or Dalrockian) Manosphere and the average churchian church(like their ”redpill”/”BOLD& BIBLICAL” counterpart in guys like St.DAL’, Mark Driscol & ”least heretical”-according to one fool that is ashamed of TRUE & STRONG patriarchy-which he personally wimped & simped out on during his ”in-tact”(before he got kicked to the curb by his natural defiler) 15-year marriage by NEVER imitating his ancestors, BUT Satanic feminists instead- Doug Wilson ) pastor, huh?
YEAH, the STRONG patriarchy i grew up in and deployed against my enemies was based on my ancestral land of 150+ years by the time i showed up. These modernist & unworthy of the name ”redpiller” patriarchists only know of patriarchy through feminist propaganda & NOT by living it out like me from birth!
I just want to comment on this again:
Once I demanded that some of these men submit to my leadership, to fall under my patriarchal domain, but they declined. They’ll decline every real opportunity to be part of a patriarchal system.
And of course I recently wrote this:
I expect this will be a misunderstood point of contention. The reason I “demanded” that they submit to my leadership was to point out that so many “patriarchal” men could not bear to submit to a man who is in higher authority to them. Whether it was me or someone else isn’t the point. Other men can tell them “do this” or “do that” and they won’t listen:
Wannabe alphas will never be patriarchs if they don’t know when to lead and when to follow. If submission is only for women and never for men, you’ll never have patriarchy. The Bible teaches mutual submission.
They’ll make mistake after mistake because they are running solo (as in “What The Bible Says About Donations” and the early morning tall tale). Men, like the ones who spit on a father’s rule over his daughter, are men who are in deep need of being placed under another man’s leadership.
The Dalrockian Manosphere’s view of patriarchy is a joke. If they can’t hear it from me, who will they hear it from?
Remember when someone said “He’s demanding that we convert to Islam?” Another example of missing the point. The Dalrockian Manosphere’s supposed elevation of patriarchy itself is what mandates that they join Islam. To be logically consistent in placing patriarchy at the pole position, it is what is required. But, they won’t do it. They’ll cling to a weak patriarchy because there is a limit and a line they won’t cross.
If you claim to love patriarchy but do as little as possible to implement it, what good is your claim?
They’ll make mistake after mistake because they are running solo (as in “What The Bible Says About Donations” and the early morning tall tale). Men, like the ones who spit on a father’s rule over his daughter, are men who are in deep need of being placed under another man’s leadership.
Teah two ”prodigal sons” who loved using other fathers’ daughters(because they had ”bodily needs” that had to be satisfied), got defensive about ”what would happen if everyone was ”redpilled”?” and insisted their daughters must be treated with the utmost respect cuz their father is a ”redpill” churchian and i thought what the churchian church lady says here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puwoUKhZQbg
SNL Church Lady Well Isn’t That Special
The Dalrockian Manosphere’s view of patriarchy is a joke. If they can’t hear it from me, who will they hear it from?
How about ”redpill” JP, maybe?Or more likely? NO ONE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqSyHt5la6o
Pull Back From People Who Won’t Listen To You | Jordan B Peterson
201,219 views Mar 21, 2018
What do you do when you’re speaking and your friends won’t listen to what you’re saying? There’s a line in the new testament that’s relevant to that. Do not cast pearls before swine and what that means is if people aren’t listening to you stop talking to them because if you stop talking to them and start watching them instead, they’ll tell you what they’re up to. Pull back from the people you’re listening to and find people that will listen to you.
He’s right, yes?
ALSO, does this sound like someone WE know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2be5raB1bMM
Stop Being Nice to a Narcissist—Do THIS Instead | Jordan Peterson Motivational Speech
Are you tired of constantly pleasing a narcissist, only to be met with manipulation and emotional exhaustion? In this powerful motivational speech, Dr. Jordan Peterson shares deep insights on why you should stop being overly nice to a narcissist and what to do instead. 💡
⏰ Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction: Why You Must Stop Being Nice 🚨
02:15 – The Narcissist’s Manipulation Tactics 🎭
05:30 – Why Being “Nice” is Actually Harmful ❌
09:45 – The Psychological Power of Setting Boundaries ⚡
14:20 – How Narcissists React When You Stop Being Nice 😡
18:55 – Regaining Your Strength & Self-Respect 💪
23:30 – Final Words of Wisdom from Jordan Peterson 🏆
Makes one wonder how much of an AWALT natural defiler his ex-wife really was, huh?
Logically fallacious “whataboutism” won’t work with me: “But, Derek! You are a patriarchal hypocrite!” I’m not the one promoting patriarchy, so I’m not the one who is bound by its ridiculous precepts. The objections I raise are one way. They do not apply to me, because I don’t hold the presuppositions that the patriarchal Manosphere holds. I have my own standard of belief and behavior and I’m not bound to weak patriarchy.
Patriarchy is not a divine precept. There is no such thing as, what one former commenter used to call, “God’s Holy Patriarchy.” That’s a made up concept found nowhere in scripture:
Whoops!
Nope!
By contrast, I actually have a logically consistent basis for being a so-called Sigma male. I have a logically consistent view of authority, which is why I reject weak patriarchy.
I am the patriarch of my patriarchal domain, but I am no proponent of patriarchy. I’m not going to submit to anyone promoting weak patriarchy, because that would be stupid. But I do expect the weak patriarchal men to submit to better strong patriarchal men, ones who have established their right to rule. If they can’t do that, they should give up their belief in patriarchy.
That’s the point. Do it right or don’t try at all. Weak patriarchy is lukewarm and should be spit out for the absurd compromise that it is. Pick one or the other.
I encourage overconfident readers who are supporters of the patriarchy to quote the whole sentence on submission found in Ephesians 5. Then come preach to me about how I am a hypocrite.
I know this is a difficult concept, so let me say it again. The Dalrockian Manosphere promotes patriarchy. I do not. I reject patriarchy. Patriarchy is suboptimal. That’s why, for me, anyone I submit myself to is based on the value of what another man provides to me, not based on authoritarian hierarchies.
But, not so, the proponent of true patriarchy. His view of authority is based on hierarchy and submission, of which he allows neither except for him at the top. In the Manosphere, everyone is king, and so no one is.
I demand that the Manosphere practice what it preaches, not because I’m some great leader who wants to lead them (I don’t). No, I demand that they start practicing what they preach. They’ll never form a patriarchal community on their own. They need help just to keep from cucking to the mainstream, and they are failing pretty badly.
I’m still waiting for everyone, who cheered when Sigma Frame abandoned the patriarchy, to recognize exactly what nonsense they are teaching. I’ll probably wait the rest of my life.
“This ceding of agency to underlings and women is a common symptom of weak patriarchy.”
In the Manosphere, the weak men try to rule the strong, but comically fail.