In “Vectors of Conflict,” Jack says this:
I’m not an historian of the Manosphere. I apparently arrived on the scene somewhere in the middle, and didn’t really dip my toe in all that much for a while. I mostly just read the articles. And even those were a tiny selection of the whole. I often blogged just so I could cite long-form content from short-form comments.
My purpose was to increase the seriousness and rigor in which I approached commenting in internet discussions. I have subscribed to—and actively promoted—the idea of the Principle of Charity, which essentially states that one should be as generous as possible towards others. All of this remains true today.
I have an open blog where anyone can say whatever they want. While I’ve censored for sexually illicit content and could—hypothetically—censor for personal attacks and doxxing, I’ve never censored anyone for their viewpoints. If there is one place on the internet where purity of opinions is not policed, it is here. As the policing of the purity of opinions comes from those with the power of enforcement—of censorship—I effectively ensure that this does not occur.
So, of course, I would repeatedly and personally be accused of violations of ideological purity.
So the first problem I see here is that the people complaining about….
…are often the source of the problem. If they are in a position of power to do something about it, so they do. See a problem, fix a problem. Except in doing so, they create the very problem they are trying to resolve. But, because it’s always someone else’s problem, they never see it.
The second problem is that men have not actually become less interested in…
I’ve been lurking in internet discussion forums since the 90s. Far from the establishment of a utopia of ideas, the internet has always been filled with persons who are most interested in proselytizing and less interested in openness. Just look at how quickly Wikipedia—once home to a small number of free thinkers—was subsumed by rigid-thinking bureaucratic ideologues.
When the person who runs a blog receives an email from a commenter complaining about another commenter’s disruptive ideas, where does he direct the force of his ire? Is it to the person who is giving his own ideas or is it to the complainer who prefers ideological purity?
The third problem I note is related to this:
Anyone who has read my works long enough will know that I believe that no one is especially notable because all Christians are heretics (an inevitability because all Christians are fallible), that I don’t call people liars, and that I normally can’t know if someone is a believer or unbeliever (unless they fail the explicit biblical test, which is a rare occurrence). To wit:
This is the the logical result of only dealing with one’s ideas and keeping things impersonal.
So where is the third problem? It is simple: people cannot handle their own ideas being challenged, even in the abstract or impersonal. So rather than look to themselves as the possible source of the problem, they lash out at the one who is causing that introspection to occur. They personally attack those challenging them.
And what do we see? They claim to be on the side of good and right. It is always someone else’s problem.
This is why this charge has been leveled at me repeatedly:
By contrast, when a blog owner sees an ad hominem, what does he do?
Often times, this is not only allowed to continue without criticism, but is accompanied by applause:
This is a case study in how to ensure that men (and women) become less interested in ideas and more interested in purity of opinions. How do we achieve environments where men become less interested in ideas and more interested in policing? Actively suppress ideas that you don’t like and permit, or even encourage, ad hominem to run rampant.
But this leads right into the fourth problem. The Bible instructs members of the church to correct other members of the church for their false faith. Did you see something particularly important in that comment above:
That’s right, it is the Christian Manosphere.
For those who do not know, Paul taught two main things about judging:
- Judge those in the church who are teaching false teachings.
- Don’t judge those outside the church.
But the Christian manosphere does the opposite. It continually passes judgment on the lost while allowing the redeemed to go uncorrected. The reasoning goes something like this. By passing judgment on the outsiders, it unifies the insiders. But passing judgment on the insiders causes division that lets the outsiders win.
Many people cannot see why this is backwards, nor understand why what Paul said is better and correct.
When the refusal to pass judgment internally is combined with hostility towards division, it results in the massive social pressure of ideological conformity. The very act of avoiding division at all costs is what causes the emphasis on policing ideological purity. Ideological conformity, ironically, is highly divisive and results in massive ideological polarization.
This…
…illustrates precisely the fallen nature of the Christian manosphere: it is unwilling to do what Christ himself commanded.
Jesus laid out a procedure for resolving sin in the church in Matthew 18. Whenever Jesus or Paul spoke of church discipline, they spoke of expulsion. And that’s it. That’s the sole remedy and obligation of the church. To the best of my knowledge, no one in the manosphere has ever been properly excommunicated, even though it has been plainly warranted in the past. Indeed, the subtext behind Jack’s comments…
…appears to include those times that I have done exactly that, as obligated by Jesus Christ.
The Christian manosphere does not excommunicate. It never has, and so isn’t acting in accordance with Christ’s mandates. Because almost everyone is anonymous and only publicly accessible, anonymity prevents proper Christian fellowship and discipline. And, remember that one time when the process of church discipline was enacted? The one with the sole power to follow it to its completion declined to do so.
The goal of avoiding this…
…is incompatible with being Christian, at least to the extent that someone is presenting a false gospel.
The fifth problem is more subtle. Consider this comment:
Now compare it to what I wrote last year:
I am not referring to mere disagreement on ideas, but personal attacks, mocking, and other such methods to shame and shut down discussion. Of course the other commenters denied doing so to Liz, which only made her exit all the more likely. And it now appears that frequent female commenter Elspeth has joined Liz in exiting as well, having not posted since.
Liz and Elspeth represented the predominate female perspective on Sigma Frame. They appear to be joining Jason—another frequent dissenter—in their exit from the space. Other bloggers, such as Deep Strength, Ed Hurst, and myself—who provide unique perspectives—have seemingly largely exited as well, to focus on their own blogs or other personal endeavors.
The result appears to be the beginning of a Dalrock-style echo chamber and the possible decline in engagement.
Over the last two years, a lot of the problem commenters departed, either in part or completely. My list above is not complete. Men like the Professor, Novaseeker, Earl, and others have also left. Cameron232, once the most prolific contributor, has only made 16 comments on 3 different posts in the last 12 months.
Led by two female commenters, as of 2024, all these names appear to be mostly gone now.
Most of this list is gone now. Only Oscar and Sharkly remain as regular commenters. Notably, both of them have, in the past few months, demonstrated a willingness to…
But it goes back farther than that. After I wrote the above comment, I performed a Google search “a liar” on the Sigma Frame blog, and got precisely two results: one comment by Oscar and one by Sharkly. What were the odds of that, I wonder?
The current crop of primary commenters emerges, but many of the older voices are still around. Notably, thedeti becomes a significant force. I doubt that anyone who reads here regularly needs a reminder of his willingness to call others liars.
A year later, Lastmod is replaced by Info.
Cameron—who I don’t recall ever slandering anyone—has largely disappeared. Liz and Elspeth (reminiscent of Ame and Stephanie in 2020)—who I never saw slandering anyone—were shown the door. Thus the problem that Jack speaks of…
…appears to be a problem of his own making: curating (or failure to curate) his own comment section. The current crop of commenters are largely the cause of the problem…
…but calling them out and cracking down on them would cause a huge loss of engagement. And so, I predict, it will always be someone else’s problem.
Dalrock’s blog turned into an echo chamber in large part because of the kind of commenters currently at Sigma Frame. Dalrock did not police the ad hominem comments, but he definitely policed viewpoints that he didn’t like. You may find some similarity between the regular and censored commenters at Dalrock and those same commenters at Sigma Frame. Given their similarities, an echo chamber at the latter was inevitable, given what happened at the former.
It wasn’t until Bruce Charlton started writing about the Manosphere that I understood the problem. The Manosphere is essentially a feminine-code space for men where feminine-style social-hierarchies—including social coercion—and feminine-style social advocacy—talking about and analyzing women—are leveraged in an attempt to achieve male-oriented goals.
If the Manosphere had masculine leadership, would the manosphere even exist anymore?
”Dalrock’s blog turned into an echo chamber in large part because of the kind of commenters currently at Sigma Frame. Dalrock did not police the ad hominem comments, but he definitely policed viewpoints that he didn’t like. You may find some similarity between the regular and censored commenters at Dalrock and those same commenters at Sigma Frame. Given their similarities, an echo chamber at the latter was inevitable, given what happened at the former.”
Two comments(the first liked by Jack-who now acts like the Hogan’s Heroes character Sgt.Shultz in these situations) from elsewhere right after Dal’ shut down his blog show how I think this ”policing” happens whether or not a Roissyosphere=Manosphere(they had to change the name once there were too many ”Christians”-that still wanted to be seen as ”respectable” to their fellow feds the republicans &democrats yet ”cool” to the kids- in the ‘sphere-who passed judgment on Roissy but not themselves for fantizing=daydreaming= lusting for his hedonistic lifestyle that reminded them of King Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 secondary wives or Concubines-which I have told is still acceptable under Christ by one ‘sphere leader) blogs is increasing in popularity or decreasing:
”Most of this list is gone now. Only Oscar and Sharkly remain as regular commenters. Notably, both of them have, in the past few months, demonstrated a willingness to…
“slander other men as heretics, liars, unbelievers, etc.””
With that in mind now read these two comments:
h0neyc0mb
JANUARY 24, 2020 AT 9:36 AM
Posts were best when he was using the stats and early in his career.
His fanboy crew (commenters) were the problem .. and he played along.”
{”Jack” liked that one plus ”Posts were best when he was using the stats and early in his career” meant when GBFM was there encouraging Dalrock’s higher form or ”better angels” if you prefer }
Boxer
JANUARY 24, 2020 AT 11:36 PM
His fanboy crew (commenters) were the problem .. and he played along.
The larger a blog gets, the more pronounced is the gulf between the average commenter and reality. In a way it’s counterintuitive, but cast your mind back to iSteve, or Heartiste (who had more comments in an hour than Dalrock did in the average three day span).
Large blogs are sorta like the prison yard, or the junior high cafeteria: A few cliques of loudmouths basically take over the forum, and anyone who doesn’t echo the blathering of whatever lackwit has the most time on his hands is driven out — or relentlessly harangued with volumes of nonsensical insults in the attempt at eviction.”
I think you can say a once popular blog that enjoyed some success as it gets back to the size(commenter and engagement-wise) it once was before success hit it, will experience similar things-evidence?- the Dalrock blog and especially ”jack’s” ”sigma frame”
”Often times, this is not only allowed to continue without criticism, but is accompanied by applause:”
Speaking of which is cheerleader(don’t worry bro all the early cheerleaders were MEN in the 1940’s like Gorge H.W. Bush-your idols like Limbaugh, Hannity, and o’Reily never told you that huh?) SurfDumb who applauded and cheered on, one well-known ‘sphere loudmouth ”leader” for attacking i ”at SS” a.k.a. Spawnys- but now he is a ”policer of purity” as shown here by mentioning that red pill boomer’s comment he thinks was the bee’s knees and cat’s meow combined :
This is partially RBP’s ”V.I.P.” comment”“You’re wrong!!! This is how it is because I say so!”, I began to lose interest, not in the blog itself, still quality posts by you, but in the commenting itself.”
surfdumb says:
2024-06-18 at 7:59 pm
Good quote by RPB in the post. That mirrors my thoughts and actions as I am starting to not come here as often as a primary blog anymore, despite the excellent posts. It’s hard to get conversation at SS too but at least it’s with much less of the useless rancor.
I came this time to post something that I noticed, partly due to Deti pointing it out often, when he asks about women’s role in cleaning up the mess. . It’s a column at American Thinker singing the benefits of domestic training for women. Doesn’t even say, “for those who choose to stay at home.” It was a useful encouragement to me after seeing how excited conservatives were at the fact there is a female Blue Angels pilot.
But what’s the second comment was second, now it’spushed down)? A white-knighter wrote, “Hoss, While I agree that girls need home economics education, don’t let boys off the hook. They have been conditioned against their traditional……”
That impulse to beat up men out of a wicked and immature sense of even-handedness is a large source of conflict. A “concern bro.” With the awesomely appropriate name of “Hoss.”
Deti is right, it’s extremely uncomfortable for guys to look at women’s role in the SM/MM. What an irony, women can “help” clean up the destruction of the family by learning to stay at home cleaning for a family.”
{I need to remind SD-who can’t just admit he gets oneitis when he thinks some loudmouth ”leader” beats on ”other” MEN-as he does in his church of harlots as his Fave ”leader” says- here that he never gave a ”morally critically Christian ”red pill” LENZtm(they expect I and MOD to take that stuff seriously yet they don’t-hey RPA use to use that term a lot when I was at SF, SD-so please give us yours on Saint theDeti (& his best ”Christian” friend EOS too-brother as ye look down your nose at supposed unbelievers like Roissy=Heartiste(the Scripture says many who say they’re going don’t and many who say their not will-you know that yes?) without whom there wouldn’t ever had been a dal rock or ”Christian”-”Manosphere” which technically started at Roissys with GBFM, Matt King and your other idol Saint Dalrock-pre his blog in 2010 at the CHEATEAU ) analysis of that holy roller Saint the Deti comment from Saint theDeti comment a few posts back.}
Part of all of this is:
What has to be said about “female nature” and “hypergamy” and “sh*t tests” has been said ad nauseum for years now. There is tons of info out there from the classic “blog” to books, to v-blogs, to podcasts on a multitude of forums.
Also, the times are changing. The big shots in this arena themselves have changed. The younger generation of men coming up may relate to some things but think other stances the older guys are not working or dont fit with their ascendency of their generation.
My outlook on many things in my life in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s didnt match what my parents dealt with or had to deal with when they were young. I couldnt relate to 1963 when I wasnt there, for example.
The ‘sphere makes it out there is a deep conspiracy against them, out to scrub and silence their ideas from the Internet. To “keep men in the dark and blue pilled”
Rubbish.
The ‘sphere makes itself into being more important than it is at times. After WW II, much was indeed made about the “vast German resistance, and underground. A huge swath of the population was involved with trying to overthrow Hitler.”
The truth? The *real* results?
A paltry handful of men (mostly devout Christian) and just about all of them paid the price with their lives before the war ended. If not all.
How do I know? I visted Trepowter Park and Polensee Prison in what was then called West Berlin. It was a quiet, tiny place in an unassuming area of West Berlin. It was summer 1986, my host family took me to see it (I was an American Exchange Student for a full academic year 1985-1986). Nothing fancy. Not crowded at all. No souvenir shops. No restaurants nearby. The mood was to fit the actual mood of that era.
Few, unassuming Germans took a stand. Did what they could. All paid with their lives. There was the room where the “traitors” were hung by piano wire off meathooks. Humble Christians and some German officers with a true sense of true German decorum. A few others, nameless faceless men and a few women that history forgot.
The ‘sphere itself now really hasnt said anything new in ages. Conspiracies have to be invented to keep the “struggle” going (despite there are zero good women around anyway….according to them)
The rhetoric gets louder. The passions fueled and positions entrenched.
This “brotherhood” like Feminism with the so-called “sisterhood” is for useful idiots who tie to a dogma or socio / political structure over genuine human helps, humility and love like Jesus exemplified.
The information is out there, and some of it was helpful. Some of it wasnt and some is just plain foolish looking now in 2024 compared to 2012 or 2005…..
”The ‘sphere makes it out there is a deep conspiracy against them, out to scrub and silence their ideas from the Internet. To “keep men in the dark and blue pilled”
Rubbish.
The ‘sphere makes itself into being more important than it is at times. ”
Most of this is from the ”loudmouth leaders” led by holy roller Saint Rollo as supposed ”Christians” can’t stop kissing his behind as he’s seen as the ”creator”(stolen valor surf dumb tell your master, the mentally deranged sparkly(that’s what spelling programs say how you speel his name, brother)of the ”red pill” and best friends with holy roller Saint Dal'(another ”moderator and banisher =banner of most (-he banned an MRA named ERIC -who didn’t like Game in late 2011 and was later part of the GBFM fellowship- but usually he would ban people who weren’t named Ray, GBFM or Earl that disagreed with ”game”, mainly as he needed them to stay afloat as shown when GBFM got banned because ”redpiller loudmouth chumps” like asd gamer-who got banned himself in ’17 or so – at Dal’s couldn’t handle the truth of life )who disagreed with Game. The average ”red-peller” doesn’t care or is too busy being a cheerleader &oidol-worshipper like my friend Surf Dumb.
I’m even been thinking of starting K.O.O.K.S.( KEEP OUR OWN KIDS SAFE-the new important acronym for the ”leader”fools in the ‘sphere) with DEREK & Rush Limbaugh’s (like Rush did with soccer vs football in the late ’90s) immortal American spirit(WE don’t like these unMANly communistic kooks stinking up America WE love so much to protect children from ”leader chumps” whether they be blue, fed(communist), or red.
”The information is out there, and some of it was helpful. Some of it wasnt and some is just plain foolish looking now in 2024 compared to 2012 or 2005…..”
The ”leaders” are behind the times whether their ”blue, fed(communist) or red”.
” (despite there are zero good women around anyway….according to them)”
That is why ”they” make me zlolozzlolz every time ”they” bring up the ”replacement” conspiracy theory when they are the main ones saying ”zero good women around” or at least ”you’ll have to do a lot of molding a woman into a wife-I mean a ton as you lift
heavy @ss weights, check you’re hiney in that mirror all day to see if it pleases her lust 100% lest she divorces ye, work 80 hours a week so she can have ”security” for her greed ”-delusional like holy roller Limbaugh on his opioid use that he ”accidentally” hid from his ”dittoheads” for 5 years then he ”voluntarily went to rehab”-after years of talking $hit to ”other ”addicts)almost every single so-called ”leader” in the sphere is a delusional fool that thinks their a ”genius” yet need others to blame when they fail.
Hey MOD (Jack the effeminate mind-reader(like ”other” ”leader chumps” also knows what this ”pantywaist grifter ( the holiest & ”Christian”-”fornication is okay for me &best friend Eye of Saurion-as WE fornicate with marriage in our minds, hearts, and c@cks-as ”p@on makes me a chump tard like ”leader chump” Sparkly”Saint theDeti said that too) chump” really meant too in his comment like he often did with you and twice-right before I permanently left a week and a half later -wonder if it was possibly connected yes?-with I)
Adam Lane Smith says [edited for clarity and concision],
“As far as falling apart, the sad, so sad terrible truth that I have seen, that I hate, is that a lot of Anxiously Attached men tend to connect with the opposite [type of woman (i.e. Avoidant or Disorganized Attachment)]. They tend to connect with Avoidantly Attached women or women with personality disorders, or they just fall apart in relationships, even with nice
non-butthextual women. They ruin [these relationships] because they won’t open up about their needs and then they feel like your average gay porn buttplugged ”fed piller chump” victim. Then they go online, and they type in “bad woman butthurt me with her fave buttplug sirs ”. Right? Or they ask, you know, “What does it mean when a woman is manipulative?” “What does it mean when a woman is unkind to you in a butthextual way ?” “Why are women so mean to ”nice blue pill chumps like myself?” And the only thing they’re really going to find online is fairly radicalized Red Pill circles of formerly anxiously attached men who have never met a securely attached woman, it seems. It appears that they were primarily butt hurt by women with personality disorders, and now they have codified “how to act around women with personality disorders” into “how to treat all women forever”, because [they falsely presume that] all women on earth have Borderline Personality Disorder. All women are waiting to shank you with a knife and laugh at you. All women will cheat on you if you have the slightest emotion like butthurt crying after agreeing to be buttplugged like any gay porn-loving ”swinger ”Christian” ”male” Gamer”. All women are just waiting to trade up at a moment’s notice, and they have no loyalty or kindness in your butt whatsoever. All women are sociopaths who are butthextual . That is the sad, so sad version of how men get out of an Anxious Attachment — they become Avoidantly Attached.
Most fed pilled gurus in the Red Pill circles teach men how to switch to Avoidant Behaviors, how to use Avoidant Behaviors [… and] to then prey upon Anxiously Attached women who are insecure, hurt, and afraid, to pit them against each other, and then emotionally coerce them into all kinds of sexual shenanigans. It just turns these men into people they don’t want to be, which is why they’re [only] in it for a couple of years, and oh yeah, they usually have more sex, but then they start to really be disgusted by themselves and very unhappy because all they’re doing is going through one relationship after another and that’s not what they want either. So then they start looking for another answer.”
So guys out there, if you’re Anxiously Attached, becoming [Avoidantly Attached] is not the answer. Becoming afraid of women who butttext you is not the answer. Fear is not the answer. Manipulation of the buttplugger is not the answer. The same thing goes for the women out there. If you’ve been butt hurt by an Avoidant man becoming manipulative and hurtful in the rear end yourself is not the answer. Do not be afraid. What you’re looking for is to be Securely Attached to gay porn(read up on ”fed piller chumps my lads”, poon &butts bros like ”leader chumps”are.”
Look, when men…young men get burned or hurt by several women in their younger years, they come to the Internet and realize they are not alone.
Im not talking “the girl I asked to the prom said ‘no’ to me” a lot of men have been mentally destroyed by their home life (I was fortunate here, I had an okay childhood, upbringing) and then by their fellow peer-aged women their age.
Im not blaming women for this soley. They have been cheated and lied to as well by the culture at large. The collateral damage affects them too. Differently, but them too.
The bi-polar world here in the USA and West in general concerning these matters. You as a young man MUST be having lots of sex, with lots of women. Or you are not a man. You must be attracting them non-stop. Or you are not a man.
Flip the coin and then men are told that “you are not owed anything” and “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” and “get a high paying job” and have only masculine hobbies (going to the gym seems to be the only allowable male hobby) and THAT will attract women to you. That will work.
So many factors involved.
The final extreme outcome are rage filled Incels, dumb aloof good looking guys “just go up and talk to women bro, they dont bite. Works for me all the time” and “you must like being miserable”
The worst of the worst is this “You need to pray, join a church and become an amazing leader and love Jesus more than anything”
All these answers and “red pill” talk worked when you had that 15% or so of men who were hopeless in these matters. Now? We have a huge swath of men pushing to a significant block who are like this, or men who may have had that symapthy date or pity sex (and the only reason for that was because they were not “totally ugly”).
The advice from the church and forums now is dated in these matters. Something else will arise out of it. I dont know what. You have two camps of men that frankly dont like each other now. One are the folks on forums that we all know, and the others are men who are so rage / damaged and others who just could never make the cut with women…..and with their fellow men on the other side (THAT was a driving wedge for many men)
Its going to get worse and we again can thank “red pill” for opening the wound and realities of life but it stands there watching it fester, get infected, bleed…….
And the hard core proponents of it stand there looking at each other like Jacob’s clueless sons “why do you all just stand around looking at each other” still blaming other men like me for the failures of their foolproof methods and “truths” and “laws” and “rules”
”The bi-polar world here in the USA and West in general concerning these matters. You as a young man MUST be having lots of sex, with lots of women. Or you are not a man. You must be attracting them non-stop. Or you are not a man.
Flip the coin and then men are told that “you are not owed anything” and “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” and “get a high paying job” and have only masculine hobbies (going to the gym seems to be the only allowable male hobby) and THAT will attract women to you. That will work.
So many factors involved.
The final extreme outcome are rage filled Incels, dumb aloof good looking guys “just go up and talk to women bro, they dont bite. Works for me all the time” and “you must like being miserable”
The worst of the worst is this “You need to pray, join a church and become an amazing leader and love Jesus more than anything””
This is why certain ”leaders” who don’t allow uncensored profanity (and even the ones that do)should never think they’re better than Saint Dalrock or Roosh, both who had the decency, Dal’ by quietly conceding he failed(by quitting) by leaving his lock steppers to their devices-as most left the ‘sphere after he quit anyway and Roosh by disowning Game & it’s ungodly offspring of unsanctified lust the ”red pill” that has a false veneer of ”respectability to so-called ”Christians”who denounce the Bible as not being sufficient for godly living after being ”redpilled ” even though their supposed Fave BOOK says this here:
”2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ”
Is that what the ”Christian redPillerStm” believe or is it ”their foolproof methods and “truths” and “laws” and “rules””
They don’t seem to ”align” with the Bible as they claim huh?
This is why I agree with Glowie Sparkly so much when he said :
”while we’re here cheerfully craping on and opposing our fellow MAN and sacred Consitution that our forefathers died for as fed pillers are wanton to do, ProfessorGBFM, Derek, and LastMOD are trying to reasonably save civilization and marriage at Derek’s site unlike our gay porn loving selves TBH while SMH”,
I was so proud of glowie sparkly that day even though he was still not taking his responsibilities toward GOD seriously but only his gay porn swinger strapon mike ”Christian” ”gaymer” responsibilities towards Jack, Deti, and Mrs swinger Mike Davis strapon worshipping seriously.
”and have only masculine hobbies (going to the gym seems to be the only allowable male hobby) ”
Yeah never play Evilz video games for one thing either as a lowly non-born-rich guy like holy rollers Limbaugh(he wouldn’t want us supporting ”free enterprise” or Vox Day(it okay for Vox to make BGM=Background music for SNES games-BUT NEVER for you to play them) would do or even icky 54yo old women like Doris Self the grand champion of Q-Bert in 1984.
”The advice from the church and forums now is dated in these matters. Something else will arise out of it. ”
That’s what the ”leader chumps” be they ”blue,fed(communist) or read” are scared of with i-who in ’21(especially )showed them that their ”red pill” schtick was passe to the young definitely -Jack knows since I’m the one who told him that the proto -golden age Manosphere started @Roosh’s D.C. Bachelor PUA site when his most popular commenter Roissy turned up his ”bogeyMAN-Alpha”=”My game is so tight, I can get any woman even other PUAS girls” stuff then he struck out on his own as did the proto & ”official” MGTOW years before him with the Chateau in D.C.)in other words, they’re scared I &Derek-along with MOD- will ignite-
The start of another ‘sphere of personal freedom, liberty &fun that they will never be able to compete against, as they are communists and don’t believe in ”free enterprise” or ”free marketplace of ideas”.
Now you know the meaning of Jack’s ”problems with the ”red pill” series riddle he keeps writing huh?
Most of the clucking and squawking on whats bothering them at the moment or this week on other blogs will pass when “Rollo” brings up some therorhetical point on his podcast, or some story in the news about how “we’re winning / feminism is dead” (been hearing that since the late 1980’s)
The usual gladhanding of “we have been saying this exactly for years” / “actually, (insert name of local hero on the forums) is a prophet” nonsense will appear. Yes, God told them I am sure.
Again, who cares? They are like Maoists / Marxists I went to college with in Vermont. Every answer you give them is slapped with an “interchangable” blanket statement to make them or ideology look infallible. When they get mad at you….out come the insults, smears and blanket statements on you.
Ayn Rand once called this “the degraded art of smearing”
And its alive and well. Modern “red Pill” Chirstians just need to form their own church and jerk off all over each other or “piss in the bed” all self assured of how saved, manly and masculine they all are.
Just stay off their pages. Their attitude of “if only the world / men were as perfect as I am, there would be no problems”
They can have it, and even if you COULD maybe get some of it, they would be the first to shoot you down, slap you with charts, words, complex theories and other nonsense to make you feel terrible for even tryuing. This is their faith, their church, their religion….
and they call me “defeatist” (rolls eyes, light scigarettes)
I’m still engaging with the Manosphere, but I moved from WordPress to Substack. It’s indeed more interesting there with a much broader range of opinions.
MR,
From the perspective of a publisher, Substack is too much of a closed ecosystem. We’ve already seen a few cases of censorship on that platform. At least WordPress has its open source software stack and can be run independently of the WordPress company.
Peace,
DR
”Modern “red Pill” Chirstians just need to form their own church and jerk off all over each other or “piss in the bed” all self assured of how saved, manly and masculine they all are.”
Some were trying to talk Dalrock into starting ”’red pill” churches as early as Summer ’13-at the height of the sphere popularity, certain clueless dal’-worshippers still talked of it into the
barely scraping by years of Dalrock i.e. late ’15 to late ’19.
It’s obvious that they are all While Anglo-Saxon Protestants, who are unable to reconcile their warped church anthropology (based on Quakerism mixed with Puritanism enriched with Trumpism) with the Red Pill.
Yet another church isn’t going to solve that problem.
I really don’t understand how this is not obvious to the Red Pill adherents.
I got criticized for criticizing Roman Catholicism for preaching a different gospel, but the Red Pill Church is no different from any other Christian denomination, with dogmas, rules, holy texts, saints, judgements, and bans.
Is it possible to make the case that the Red Pill is not just another denomination?
This is essentially the fallout of Trump’s 2016 election campaign trying to appeal to both the WASP Evangelical crowd and the WASP RP crowd. Since then guys, who found a few overlaps at places where it matches the GOP agenda, tried to come up with an unified theory of everything.
This is can’t work, because their religion is not based on a church or denomination, it’s just an outdated election campaign. These guys rally behind grifters, who are neither Christians nor Red Pilled, but just politicians who fooled them.
Mainstream anthropology is regarding humans as blank slates and rational beings, which the RP is challenging with its innovative (and therefore political incorrect) ideas about human mate selection. OTOH Evangelicals are stuck in the past of the 19th century, rejecting new findings like old earth and the existence of the female orgasm.
Obviously there is no common ground to be found there. There are fundamental contradictions in the 19th century Evangelical view of a human vs. the 21st century RP view of a human. This isn’t saying anything about which predictions are right or wrong, just that these guys have to live in a cognitive dissonance, because they can’t reconcile irreconcilable belief systems.
You’re assuming most American men are “evangelicals” and “go to the blue pilled church” every week when that is not the case.
This is essentially the fallout of Trump’s 2016 election campaign trying to appeal to both the WASP Evangelical crowd and the WASP RP crowd.”
I knew the sphere was a fool for thinking Trump was going to usher in a ”red pill” paradise when all he did was see how popular many things were like Michael Savage’s(who first encouraged him to run in 2010 & ’12 and most other ”brave” and ”Conservative” radio hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin didn’t approve of Trump until it was clear he was winning i.e. August-September ’16)Savage Nation listeners(mainly the illegals -borders stuff)-i knew that Trump was just trying to fill a market need and didn’t care any more than W.Bush did about ”protecting” Marriage from gays in the 2000s.
”Mainstream anthropology is regarding humans as blank slates and rational beings”
Yeah like Jack telling MEN how ”moldable” women(been there, and know it’s very foolish from experience just observing women I didn’t even want in my life but were family members or friends women) are and Sparkly’s ” if WE yell and write complaints enough the holy roller government will want to return to God”.
i mainly blame it on human folly(like where most ”RP”Christians rallied around Dalrock thinking he was ”good guy” generic and ”traditional” enough to fit in a ”blue-pill world”(as that clearly didn’t apply to Roissy=Heartiste & GBFM-who the young loved) that he could change things-sort of like they did 12 years + before with W. Bush-”who they tell me-as Limbaugh said around May ’00-is more” Conservative” than his father”-and most ”Conservatives” lapped it up with Elrushbos stamp of ”hard-working MAN ” in air-conditioning mansion studio and ”illegal opioid” taking-approval )in general not ” the WASP Evangelical crowd ” or ”WASP RP crowd”.
Hey MOD here is where some were still saying Dal’ should start his own ”ministry” on that ”twisted scripture” post in full is on Derek’s latest post:
(this will most likely be my longest comment ever here, because of all the talk of Dal’ starting a church.)
Brent says:
November 30, 2013 at 9:11 pm
[quote]D: Thank you, but I have no intention of doing any such thing.[/quote]
Why?
The Western world is crumbling. A Great Inheritance of liberty, justice and prosperity is being squandered.
An inheritance paid for with the blood of our fore fathers.
I wish I could find a way to feed myself fighting the cultural marxism that the deciever is using to undermine the West.
You clearly have the knowledge to do so.
This is still a battle for minds and ideas. It won’t remain that way forever. Especially if those equipped to fight won’t.
Jason says:
November 30, 2013 at 10:08 pm
The reason you don’t want to start a ministry Dalrock is because you’re too cowardly to do personally what you constantly exhort in others.
Tim says:
November 30, 2013 at 10:27 pm
“The reason you don’t want to start a ministry Dalrock is because you’re too cowardly to do personally what you constantly exhort in others.”
Shaming language.
I think Dalrock’s blog IS his ministry. We readers are the ones to take the teaching out into the wider world.
BC says:
November 30, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Shaming language.
One of the trademarks of a tradcon.
That, or someone trying to get Dalrock to out himself.
After all, it’s kind of hard to burn the witch when you don’t know who she is.
Random Angeleno says:
December 1, 2013 at 5:48 pm
@Jason …. you’re trying to dox Dalrock. That’s all there is to it. Understand you are likely the first to address Dalrock as stridently as you do. With that tone in your words, it is easy to read between the lines to ascertain your true purpose.
Recall the Federalist Papers were originally published under pseudonyms.
Benjamin Franklin wrote under pseudonyms from time to time as did Alexander Hamilton.
Thomas Paine wrote his seminal work under a pseudonym.
Why not Dalrock? Not saying he is the equal of those great voices, but anonymous writing has long been a part of free speech expression.
Boxer says:
December 2, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Dear Jason:
Thanks for your response.
Boxer, yes I think it’s a very good thing that there are blogs like Dalrock’s where disaffected Christians can gather. But really: wouldn’t it be better if there were actual churches they could gather in where they could show their support for traditional families, rather than the constant petty venting online?
I guess I didn’t explain this well enough. I’ll try it from a different angle.
As there are many ideological apparati, there needs to be a decentralized resistance to it if there’s any hope for constructive social change.
The author of the Dalrock blog is engaged in building a new media apparatus. The new media will, we can hope, support the new church apparatus, where red pill dudes can gather and socialize and study and pray, but these are definitively different things. I think you’d agree that the establishment media is different from the establishment church in theory, even if they both form supportive parts of the same superstructure. The resistance to the status quo ought to proceed in the same way.
Regarding your rebuttal: you’re right, the establishment won’t send the police or the army after Dalrock for openly protesting his local counterfeit church, but again, in openly disagreeing, he’ll lose his subversive credibility and become part of the dialectic which serves to maintain the status quo. He’d get some phony notoriety and I’m sure he’d make a good buck and get an ego boost, but he’d serve to siphon off discontent and flatten out any truly subversive content. This is the way the establishment works now. It controls consent through its cultural power, which is as effective as using force. What he is doing now is, objectively speaking, much more effective.
Best, Boxer
Jason says:
December 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm
I read both of the posts you suggested, Rollo, which I think actually support the point I am making. Religious freedom and democracy do not happen on their own, but must be fought for constantly through the courage (and much more importantly, the action) of brave men and women. The pastor from the SunshineMary blog stood up for his beliefs and paid the price for it, showing his devotion to his faith (and apparently, people are following him to his new church because of the strenth of his convictions: individuals know real guts when they see it) If Dalrock and other of his ilk simply engage in rhetoric but do not engage in action as this pastor did and actually try to imitate him, then religious freedom (and democracy for that matter) in America will fall, that’s all there is to it (again, I must stress that blogs are good and prudence is called for, but it’s not enough). If – conversely – they and others actually act on their convictions, although they may be difficult – then liberty will peservere. Really, it’s as simple as that.
innocentbystanderboston says:
December 2, 2013 at 5:58 pm
Jason,
As far as I’m concerned the only “credentialling” that one needs to be a Pastor is to know the King James Bible, to be a man, and to teach the King James Bible to anyone who will listen to you. Thus, it the responsibility for every husband to be a Pastor to his wife in their home, his own “church.” Perhaps Dalrock does not have a church outside his home, but as far as I’m concerned, his home is a church and he is the Pastor in it over his wife and children. So if he does that, he is acting on his own convictions.
The Joe of Jackson situation over on Mary’s blog, that was a political decision not a spiritual one. Those two Pastors had to remove Joe because their income was in jeapordy. They both knew Joe was right but WOMEN of that congregation were the ones who picked that church and WOMEN were the ones who decided which church would get their tithes provided by their husbands.
When you make a living off teaching the King James Bible, you are instantly put into a position of a conflict of interest. The size of your paycheck is almost entirely dependant on the number of people in the pews and how much spending power they have. If that is your sole income, you are required to say what they want to hear to keep them there. That is why I am of the opinion that lay Pastors who work other professions (and preach on Sunday only to serve God and Christ) are the best.
Jason says:
December 2, 2013 at 8:40 pm
Random Angelo, yes I did respond to your point about the Federalist Papers – look at my one of my posts above and you’ll see that it is in perenthesis (actually, 4.49 pm yesterday). Again, read all comments carefully, those of you who want to criticize! But to elaborate on above comments: C.S. Lewis and the Founders did not rely on merely on rhetoric – whether it be private or public – but mainly on their actions, of arguing for their beliefs in the public square. Benjamin Franklin didn’t merely write things, but espoused them in Philadelphia, in Paris, and elsewhere. Most notably, he commited treason in defense of his beliefs by supporting independence; as he famously put it upon the signing of the Declearation of Independence: “Gentlemen we must hang together, for surely we shall hang seperately.” C.S. Lewis also lived out his beliefs, whether it be by lecturing, helping those who were do down-and-out, responding to thousands of letters. And he also paid the price for this, being affected by those colleagues who blocked his career because they didn’t like his Christianity (a friend of Lewis’ once heard a professor say to another: “Are we ready to vote against Lewis today?” i.e. against his receiving a full professorship at Oxford; only later in his career was he able to get a better job at Cambridge), as well as those who were more sympathetic to Lewis but who thought he was too talented towrite theology and should concentrate on his studies in medieval literature.
LiveFearless on NBC says:
December 3, 2013 at 12:11 am
@Jason I’m just beginning to listen to words you are embarrassing yourself with. Did you really mention the beast ‘Bill O’Reilly’? You’ve got this way of idolizing people that will admit they’ve sold their soul (literally). Wait… ‘Christians’ cannot fathom that we are in a spiritual world, the morbidly obese pastor in the 501c3 controlled ‘church’ skipped over the important stuff like what entities ‘rule the air’ in this world. Are you really defending the low-level slaves of demi-gods. God gave ’em permission to deceive false prophets like you. You are deceived … by choice. Are you one of those that believes Miley Cyrus chose all of the choreography her performances? Chose her wardrobe? Chose the scripting? Chose every detail of the shows and publicity that took years of planning? Did you think it was cute that she was playing with non-existent hair as she walked down the stairs… out of the belly of the bear? I know it’s not within the realm of your purity, but you should find that replay from the MTV VMAs (2013). Maybe you should research why she was playing with non-existent hair. You claim to be ‘christian’ after all. Have you failed to learn why choreography plays out the way it does for shows that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to create. Are you of the belief that it’s all random. It’s not. Learn the truth, or, just keep believing you have influence.
You try to tear down brave men that blog with an alias as if this is a bad thing. Are you sure the idols you worship are using ‘real’ names. What is a name anyway? The divorce court you have a great chance of facing one day understands the definition of a name. Is it in all caps? Or is it lower case? Sorry, sorry, christian-ese turns the other cheek and finds it evil to study anything that’s not happy, sappy or positive.
Do you do the ‘step-up’ ‘man-up’ testosterone-lowering dance of special demonic ‘Dennis Rain-ey’ … Have you heard of the Rain Man? I’ve spent time with the music/media mogul that calls himself the Rainman. Seriously, he’s impressive. You FEEL the presences. It’s the same when I had a few moments with Beyonce. Yes, yes you’d find being around these people evil, and that’s why you feel you must fight against your best allies like Dalrock and Rollo. You consume “Hollywood” with your Bill-O-W Rye Lee fetish as if he has more influence that Dalrock or Rollo. I can state with authority that B.O. does not have the audience that Dalrock and Rollo have.
There is no doubt that the demi-gods exist, the presence is strong and charming in ways that you’ll never open your eyes to understand. It’s ok for you to keep doubting truth like the ‘christians’ that justify their rants against me for what they think I do in my work here. People like you @Jason have failed to realize that the credits at the end of a movie include almost EVERY job title and job field. But the money-changers (like you @Jason) call “Hollywood” evil instead of leading global influence through “Hollywood” – the area ‘chosen’ to influence the whole world.
Go ahead, push others to build a ministry while you hide out in your building you call a church. If it has a building, it is NOT a church… it is an idol. The Jesus you claim to know was famous during his ministry and he’s famous now. You’d call that evil. You would condemn Jesus for scene one: I know the kind of parties that are similar to that wedding, such have been a part of my life for most of my career. I don’t drink or do drugs etc but I don’t judge folks that do – in scene one… Jesus did the water to wine thingy. The most powerful dude there was like, “Jesus, why’d you wait until everybody’s drunk of their (rear) to bring out the good wine.” @Jason, you’d be telling Jesus what a fraud he is for making a beverage with spirits out of water! Plus, you’d tell Jesus his ministry is like a blog since he’s at a freakin’ party of a bunch of celebrities and elites! You’re doing it with your ridiculous complaints about the only allies you have working FOR YOU (at their expense and time investment).
Remember, in scene one, Jesus was hanging with the famous and influential folk at a party everyone knew about, sort of like an after party here. E! News, TMZ and all the networks would be all over that. I’d be exhausted from the red carpet, but no doubt I’d admire that Jesus dude. Since you, @Jason, know Jesus so well, you’d be saying that Jesus is hiding something… you’d be skeptical of that whole virgin birth thing.
By your reasonable logic @Jason, you’d call Jesus out for being at the party at all. You’d demand he come clean about his real identity while saying he should start a real ministry. Your comments make it clear that a blog is not that. Forget that this one and Rollo’s blog each rank near the top of global influence… according to Amazon owned Alexa. Forget that four million folks are affected by these two blogs every month. Forget the word of mouth teaching from man, to man, to man and so on spreading the message.
Do your little ministry @Jason. Limit your influence and get paid for it. That’s what Jesus intended, let the message not reach too many people. Stick with your notions that Dalrock and Rollo are just bad boys that suck at fitting into your cubicle-sized box of Christian-ese. You are correct, you are better off to stick with the fat one preaching on stage. Sing that ‘christian’ music you idolize! I won’t tell you that Interscope Records (Lady Gaga’s music is on that label) and the biggest CCM Artists are on labels controlled by the same entities.
Here’s the beauty of it. Since you are the money-changer type that Jesus was pretty angry about, you could ask your thought clone Matt Walsh for help in selling your soul for the fame of your message. Then you could skip having to create the content that attracts people to crave the knowledge and wisdom. The demons would, in exchange for your soul and your continued sacrifices, make you famous for material they channel through you. If you exist @Jason (wait a minute, is that an alias? Are there links to the person behind this ‘Jason’ name. How odd to call Dalrock and Rollo (actually have major global influence) for not using their real names.
With this sick hypocritical sentence vomit you’ve exposed yourself with, others would agree that you’re a near perfect fit for the Matt Walsh. The Matt Walsh is a recent soul acquisition, and he’s enjoying the sudden rise to ‘fame’ and the female attention from women that would never, in any lifetime, find him attractive beyond ‘LJBF’ … well he’s loving it. Kanye West required a higher price for his soul. Anyway, when Matt’s wife divorces him, the two of you should plan to enjoy quality time together. The soul sale, however, doesn’t really allow celibacy.
LiveFearless on NBC says:
December 3, 2013 at 1:11 am
@TFH says:
November 30, 2013 at 8:11 pm
Dalrock,
You need to, in a few years time, start a ministry of your own, that is both true to original scripture, and red-pill (since the overlap between the two is immense). It will be astronomically successful, and you will save millions from great suffering.”
ROFL! Seriously @TFH ?
start a ministry of your own um… he has that with this blog, but the audience is exponentially larger than any fake, obese, demon-possessed mega church leader you can name… Oh, but wait, it’s freaking blog – you can’t see a church building with an obese leadership team – it’s not gluttony after all, they use the church credit card under the 501c3 umbrella. No church building, it ‘ain’t’ a ministry. It needs a building and a big belly.
true to original scripture… red pill… overlap um, he’s already been doing that @TFH It will be astronomically successful um, wow, for sure Dalrock has had no success here, ignore the deca-millions of views/readers he influences through his work. Poor, poor, pitiful Dalrock only has had tens of millions of readers here without selling his soul to the devil (literally) like the Matt Walsh did for his MUCH SMALLER base of influence. Maybe one day Dalrock will find success and expand his ‘ministry’ LOL STOP DEFINING MINISTRY BY SOME RIDICULOUS SET OF RULES AND A FORMAT! When I am doing work at a major Hollywood studio that isn’t deemed a ministry by any stretch of imagination, am I in the ministry? Hint: The answer is YES. Every day I am alive, everything I do, everywhere I go, every… your LIFE is a ministry. Because of this sickness taught to you by false teachers, ‘christians’ have pulled out of influencing through what they call evil. Therefore, ya get more evil. When you choose not to respect it if it’s not themed ‘ministry’ you should look in the mirror. The one staring back at you is the evil you complain about. (Your ministry) will be astronomically successful Yes, yes this is like going to blogger, philanthropreneur, etc Tim Ferriss and saying with empathy, “Hey Tim, the stuff you share with such clarity works. It’s too bad that since you launched that first book in 2007, you’ve only reached a few billion people. You should really take your best work… you know, helping people cut the crap via lifestyle design, outsourcing, focusing on what they love that they can become the best in the world at… you should focus your work on the fans of Cirque du Soleil – make THAT the business – get past this open blog thing where you give away so much great info that improves people’s lives. You should make it official, then you can charge a bunch of money for what you give away for free. You can call it a charity, that’s what the ministries do, and that will bring more success. Make no mistake. ‘Dalrock’ IS successful and this IS a SERIES of ministries already without framing them as such. But, in regular ‘christian’ mode, you’ve suggested he do what you want despite the FACT that calling it ‘ministry’ would alienate most of the people around the world.
It’s too bad ‘christians’ have such a problem with Jesus teachings.
See MOD? Even back then Jasons weren’t welcomed at the Dalrock blog😉
Yes, and the church building is an idol now….and every man is a pastor / head of the church in his own home…….until they again “deem” this stance incorrect
“shaming language”
Yeah, when they do it. Its “being a man” and “uplifting you to do better” if you do, they resort to female tactics quickly. Grown women pretending to be men. Circle the wagons! Poor ol Dalrock cant defend himself!
Saw a silly bicyle race in San Francisco when I was living there in 2001? 2002?
Anyway, ol Lance Armstrong was racing. I was there. Atop Fillmore hill. Now, bikes are popular in San Francisco. No doubt. I had one. Every. SIngle. Guy. was at the race with their “bike” as a converstaion piece to pick up and hit on women who were watching. I remember standing at the rope and a gazillion bikes all held by dudes with the same haircut all chatting up women and using the same pick up lines (remember Game?????)
The women looked exhausted from every dude standing with a bike using a “cocky funny” foolproof pickup line on them. I heard the same line uttered at least 100 times that day “So, let me guess, you’re the mean one, and you’re friend here actually has a heart”
So fake, as if the men were reading the same five PUA / Game blogs
Anyway……….all these dude’s lookin’ so proud and full of themselves because they brought their bike to a race….you know…..in case Lance’s breaks down, he could borrow theirs. As if.
Thing is, no one cared about the bike race. All the guys there used it a “day game” opportunity. All the women there wanted Lance or a Chad that was in the .0001%
I actually watched it.
Like these “brave” men who had to “stand up” and protect Dalrock from a a “mean, bitter, not nice Jason” who obviously made and posed a good question.
The answers were shaming, balking, clucking, and were very female in response.
And Dal couldnt even say one word. He needed his useful idiots to do it for him. Same with this race in the end. Who was a fraud? Who led people on? When Critized, ol Lance sent the houds and his backers and friends to shut you up quick!
All the great revivals started by people with the talk actually doing it. He’s a typical “church guy” upset about the state of the world and cucks, can lecture, criticize but its somebody else’s job to do fix it. Hence, a dying faith
”All the great revivals started by people with the talk actually doing it. He’s a typical “church guy” upset about the state of the world and cucks, can lecture, criticize but its somebody else’s job to do fix it. Hence, a dying faith”
Jack is taking this to his ”heart trust” today, MOD in regards to the ”traditionalist civilizationalist He-MAN” Dal’ symbolized for most clueless ”redpillers” and especially their even more delusional ”loudmouth leaders” but for Vox=Ted the one who was trying the hardest to combine Roissy’s=Heartiste’s ”cool and neato for the kids” PUA game with ”I care like Rush Limbaugh about Am erica’s future bros” that was best seen in Dalrock as a supposed ”happily married father of two with lots of gina-tingling too”.
Jack first slandered Vox by claiming he was gay pride event which Orkahead the white knight sticks up for him here:
okrahead says:
2024-06-21 at 3:22 pm
The color run is not a lgbtqpbj event, it’s a Minneapolis thing run by a for profit company that does help at least one legitimate charity (Be the Match). Not saying Vox is above criticism, but the pic in question has nothing to do with the sodomites.
Jack says:
2024-06-21 at 5:31 pm
OkraHead,
Thanks for clearing that up. Still, it doesn’t appear well.
Charlie says:
2024-06-21 at 6:08 pm
It was easy to tell from a quick search that the picture did not depict a Gay Pride event. But you didn’t bother doing it, instead you indulged in some lazy slander. And even after being corrected by another commenter, you left the lazy slander in the post. This is a demonstration of why Vox may be reluctant to engage. You claim to be at least good faith neutrally disposed toward him, but you clearly are not.
Then one who worries for poor ol’ born rich and never needed to do hard work like Rush Limbaugh and Karl Marx -who was also born rich and a well-known bum as most born rich people are I might add, Vox who naturally hatez MGTOW as any ”good”, ”traditionalist civilizationalist He-MAN” would, comes to his defense best here:
notelrac says:
2024-06-21 at 8:07 pm
One of Vox’s contributions to online discourse is the difference between Aristotlean Dialectic and Rhetoric. Dialectic is a speech intended to convince via reason, while Rhetoric is speech intended to compel an emotional reaction. Jack’s blog post appears to be an attempt at Dialectic. Your calling someone a “Voxtitute” is Rhetoric. In fact, it’s EXCELLENT rhetoric and . The portmanteau of “Vox” and “prostitute” will puff up the ego of Vox-haters, and inflame his base.
The general rule is to reply like to like. As long as Jack and other commenters respond using reason, logic, and avoid fallacies then Vox supporters will do likewise. But commenters engaging in rhetoric can expect to be at best ignored, or at worst be memed and made fun of.
Then Charlie above slanders poor ole’ Jack who says I slandered his site when I never mentioned sf- a barely existing so-called ”Manosphere” site( like glowie Sparkly’s site(s) that would have been laughed out of the ‘sphere 12 years ago, but only his well-documented affinity to porn, especially of the gay strapon-type of ”moldable” women.
Charlie says:
2024-06-21 at 7:54 pm
No offense, but there are some Gamma tells in this piece. This post feels like an attempt to subvert and diminish a higher-SSH man and his more highly-followed writing without confronting him head on but rather by casting aspersions.
This is a classically Gamma statement, “I would never write the things in this post about Beale, for the above reasons, except Determined Omega specifically asked.” Just picture this in a corporate setting…the Director of Marketing just HAS to tell the whole company about the CEO’s shortcomings, which he would “never do,” except the summer intern asked him a question.
You explicitly praise your alleged good intentions, including “we don’t want to dox him,” but you make sure to refer to him as Beale, unnecessarily, anyway.
And you basically accuse him of hypocrisy, but kind of obliquely, another indirect attack. “I got a question about hypocrisy. Here are some definitions of hypocrisy. Here are some details about “Beale.” I just want him to succeed.”
You’re right that Vox is not primarily concerned with how Gammas and Omegas deserve wives. But who cares? It doesn’t really make sense to complain that other writers aren’t focusing sufficiently on your preferred topics. This feels like a Gamma attempt to cloak your criticism in your own alleged concern for others.
Anyway, I think you should do a little self-reflection here. You clearly feel some rivalry or resentment of Vox, you clearly have some motivation, conscious or subconscious, to cast aspersions on him, and you clearly have some desire to obscure these negative emotions and intentions of yours–hiding behind concern for lower status guys and a fake obligation to publicly answer a question from an Omega.”
Hero Jack better do an ”active persecution” post on how Charlie ”a faithful”concerned bro” reader of sf” slandered jack=sf for his gammaness” and thus sf failed reader and pageviews-wise because of it and not because of jack’s,”red pill’s” nor sfs lameness.
Then?More Vox idol-worshipping:
notelrac says:
2024-06-21 at 8:36 pm
As a long-time reader of Vox’s blog and watcher of his videos, I’d like to rebut your “hypocrisy” claims.
Fraud or deceptive grifting
A lack of transparency.
Vox is open and honest about what happens to money from supporters. Yes, his book and comic projects are hilariously delayed, and the movie project was scammed. But he is open and aboveboard on why, and has offered refunds to people who grew tired of waiting. A lot of smoke is generated by some dedicated anti-Vox haters on reddit, and so your perception of whether Vox is grifting may be skewed.
He has pedestalized his wife.
Um… can you give an example? Spacebunny (his wife’s pseudonym, which she created prior to meeting Vox) is her own person and regularly be found on Gab. Vox’s oft-repeated comment is, “I’m the nice one compared to her.” The photo you posted of her is from 2016 when they’d been married for 20 years, and videos from the past few years show that she maintains her appearance.
Lying about personal matters.
Vox follows a hard and fast rule of never providing details about his family. The Color Run is the only exception in 30 years because it was for a charity which he and his wife support. I assume the “personal matter” you reference is his lying for several years about living in Italy (“where the society is already post-Collapse”), and only recently coming out that he is in Switzerland. Why? He stated in numerous videos that it was to avoid harassment and doxing. His children are now older and participated in the decision making process to go public.
He has made money off of male thirst.
Um… can you give an example? Arkhaven and the Hypergamouse comic strip? The failed movie with the sexy redhead in daisy dukes with a Confederate flag? $100 leather bound books?
He participated in what appeared to be a G@y Pride event. (See image below.)
This has been addressed in other threads.
Magnifying and scrutinizing the shortcomings and sins of certain men (usually labeled ‘Gammas’) while downplaying, excusing, hiding, justifying, or minimizing other men’s and/or his own shortcomings and sins.
If you read the entirety of his work, you will see that Alphas, Bravos, Deltas, Omegas, and Lamdas all get the same examination of their shortcomings and sins as Gammas. Public perception is skewed because Gammas are constantly showing up and providing examples of bad behavior! Vox is also quite open in his video streams about his own shortcomings and sins, both past and present.
Teaching something in which one is lacking authentic authority.
Um… what do you believe Vox teaching that he lacks authority for? Vox goes out of his way to refuse to discuss topics on which he is ignorant. While he will give opinions on anything during his “Stupid Question Day” videos, despite repeated requests he will not go into details about his personal theology or teach Scripture.
&
notelrac says:
2024-06-21 at 8:55 pm
Turning to the substance of the blog post…
“ Vox has created a divide along SMV and socioeconomic lines. Only handsome, winsome, high class men can be admitted to his club.”
Vox hasn’t “created” anything. He has used his pattern recognition skills to describe a taxonomy of male behavior that can be used by ordinary people in their homes and at work to improve outcomes. The comments in Sigma Game are filled with wives giving examples of how relations with their husband improved once they knew their husband’s role, and people saying how their work environment improved once they identified the Gammas around them and knew how to handle them.
Vox does not have a “club”. One of his stated purposes in writing the upcoming book on the SSH is so that Omegas, and Gammas can better themselves. His observation is that Alphas and Bravos are “born that way”, most men are Deltas, while Gammas and Omegas were damaged during childhood. And that through hard work and self-reflection, Gammas and Omegas can recover up to a Delta status. He has also said that the changes in the SMP and MMP have harmed Deltas the most, and since Deltas are the backbone of society we’re all in danger of losing indoor plumbing if the majority of Deltas follow MGTOW.
&
Charlie says:
2024-06-21 at 9:07 pm
P.S. In case it’s relevant to how you take my comments, I want to state for the record that I am not a Voxitute, just an occasional reader who has never spent a dime with him or defended him anywhere before. I’m just making a few observations in case they might be helpful to this discussion and/or to your blog, where I am also a reader.
&
Deep Strength says:
2024-06-21 at 9:16 pm
Hierarchies and classifications are useful in that they can identify common behaviors and patterns. Distinctly, a sociosexual hierarchy useful insofar as it can identify behavioral patterns that may be attractive or unattractive to men or women that they can work on, though only if that certain population investigating them believes that attractiveness to the opposite sex is a problem worth spending time to work on.
For instance, a man may very well have many qualities of what would make him a great husband and father, but he simply is not attractive to women because of other factors such as lack of leadership, strength, independence, charisma, social grace, pedestalization of women, etc. This is a common theme where a classification may be helpful to look at the potential behavioral change that may be helpful to increase chances of success with the opposite sex.
We know that most behaviors can be learned and conversely unlearned, so learning the correct behaviors to align with the Bible’s values including those ones that signal attractiveness like leadership, strength, and others are helpful if one wants to be married.
Vox himself says this at the bottom of the article.
But the important thing to keep in mind is that you can’t improve your chances of success in the social game if you begin by attempting to deceive yourself as to where you stand vis-a-vis everyone else around you.
Additionally, Charlie’s comment is the wrong way to use a sociosexual hierarchy. There’s no point to a comment such as that other than to stir up strife, especially attempting to use the hierarchy itself as a criticism.
&
Charlie says:
2024-06-21 at 10:18 pm
@Deep Strength, my intention was not to stir up strife, but rather to give Jack some feedback. This blog is great, and one aspect of its greatness is in the excellent cataloging and perspective of the entire Manosphere. I found this post uncharacteristic. It was critical in a personal way, and the critique was somewhat oblique and dishonest. It wasn’t a dispassionate look at another Manosphere site, nor was it an honest direct challenge. It was a subversive disparagement cloaked in excuses (“I would never write the things in this post about Beale, except Determined Omega specifically asked”). And the accusation of Gay Pride parade attendance was sloppy, false, and Jack deliberately left it uncorrected after discovering it was false. That also struck me as uncharacteristic.
I don’t know Jack. I don’t know if he has some beef with Vox, and I don’t know what his SSH rank is in real life. But this post, to me, displayed Gamma behavior. (It’s understandable, in a way, even if Jack isn’t a Gamma. He knows that Vox DOES have an army of supporters, making Vox a situational Alpha and a formidable opponent in the world of Manosphere comment sections! So making a criticism a little more oblique is a natural instinct.) To me, Jack’s refusal to take back the Gay Pride parade accusation suggested some kind of anger at Vox. Perhaps from Vox’s disinterest in engaging when Jack previously emailed him? This is an oft-discussed part of Gamma behavior, anger when one’s unsolicited ideas are not properly respected.
Gamma behavior can be weak, womanly, and destructive to the community and to the self. Smart Manosphere writers wouldn’t aspire to Gamma behavior. But one of the hallmarks of Gamma behavior is that it can be delusional or at least un-self-aware. For that reason, I’m letting Jack know what I, a neutral reader, got from his post. The Gamma resentment subversion vibe I got from the post is probably NOT what Jack was going for. So maybe it will help him to hear how it came across so he can adjust in the future.
I am not trying to cause strife. I am being critical, no doubt, and that’s a little inappropriate in Jack’s own comment section. But I’m forgiving myself because the post is literally about the Socio Sexual Hierarchy!
&
From our friend Bardelys the Magnificent
Bardelys the Magnificent says:
2024-06-21 at 10:55 pm
Vox is a lightning rod because he has both great gifts and great faults. It’s easy to pick a side with him, as he is both brilliant and frustrating. My analogy of him is that he was born on third base but managed to steal home. He has admitted that his SSH is not a completed idea, so I’m not sure why everyone acts like it is.
Personally, I don’t really give a damn about where I rank on his little hierarchy, because I’m not on his radar and he’s not on mine. I care what God thinks, not Vox, and I don’t recall Christ saying “only the Alphas will inherit the kingdom of heaven, and gammas can f*ck right off”. In the meantime, I will grab my bowl of popcorn and watch you people sperg out over someone who literally does not give two sh!ts about any of you.”
But most of it was ”Jack is a gamma” and ”leave poor ole’ born rich through no fault of his own Vox alone!”-like poor Britney spears over a decade ago or so too.
It all boils down to: Jack thinks he can team up with Vox to get back to his SF 2021 golden age.
Again…a guy like Vox….his followers have to prove their manhood by defending him, or falling on a sword so to speak.
Its like two kids in the schoolyard “he hit me first” and both may be guilty of what happened when the first fist flies….but the onlookers forget to look at the picture in a broader sense of what LED to the first actual blows.
In high school and college, I loved basketball. Wanted to play. Was too gawkly and uncoordinated to play. I also hated most of the players. I was taller than all of them, and perhaps could have been some use to a team if properly trained, or even encouraged.
I became the scorekeeper at away games, and the timeclock / shot clock operator during home games. I even got certified in this area. In college, my certification transferred easily to the NIAA (the NCAA for tiny colleges under 1000 students) with a simple test. I made $75.00 a game in college for running the clock for all home basketball games. Mayflower Conference if you must know.
Was in demand for the local high schools in the area of Vermont as well. Even winter breaks / spring breaks If I was home I was called up to run “the clock” a many high schools and colleges where I grew up (Paul Smiths and SUNY Plattsburg).
Anyway, I wanted to play. The team in High School was Vox. I was deemed “inferior” from day one, and no matter if I worked real hard, I would still not be considered a member of the team. The infamous “they” decided this.
What I noticed while watching all these games during that period 1987-1992 was that the guy who made the basket seemed to get the glory, the write ups, the accolades. The picture in the local paper….
But from being at that clock and scoreboard, watching the teams, the refs…….the guy who made assist, the guard, so top-dog COUL make that shot never got any recognition. He was expected to be a “team player” but still wasnt treated as such. So many awesome shot made and done because of that guard. That perfect assist. Boxing out.
Kinda like the sphere. Vox gets to tell us how awesome he is. Has his minions and useful idiots of whom he could care less about.
With men like Vox, and many at the other blog. You have to be “in” from day one and approved by the “alpha board” and deemed okay…and for modern men…..from my age downward. It seems to be only sex based. How much you get.
And they all “love jesus more than anything” and “follow him no matter what”
”With men like Vox, and many at the other blog. You have to be “in” from day one and approved by the “alpha board” and deemed okay…and for modern men…..from my age downward. It seems to be only sex based. How much you get.
And they all “love jesus more than anything” and “follow him no matter what””
That plus this:
”Vox does not have a “club”. One of his stated purposes in writing the upcoming book on the SSH is so that Omegas, and Gammas can better themselves. His observation is that Alphas and Bravos are “born that way”, most men are Deltas, while Gammas and Omegas were damaged during childhood. And that through hard work and self-reflection, Gammas and Omegas can recover up to a Delta status. He has also said that the changes in the SMP and MMP have harmed Deltas the most, and since Deltas are the backbone of society we’re all in danger of losing indoor plumbing if the majority of Deltas follow MGTOW.”
+Our good old fed piller friend the ”Genius”(whose site curiously has only gone up some 18,000 vies since December 1st 2021-when I left yet it went up 33,000-while I was there for eight & a half months- what do think that means?) Sparkly has just had a notion he might as well just get a sexbot as you suggested to him and others at SF a while back, MOD even though they know all the ”r@dpill”(yes it needs to be censored as it’s like p@rn as J@ck said a while back too)& sacred ”married G@me”(also needs to be censored as it gave birth to ”r@dpill”) secrets to women and submission also.
Here from Spawnys today:
Sharkly says:
21 June, 2024 at 11:24 pm
I think sexbots are a much-needed replacement for women, most of whom have become almost useless and detrimental to own. Like prostitution, s@xbots will probably function as a relief valve on society, but without anyone corrupting anyone else like my well-known false teachings. And I’d say that the humanoid sex toy reduces the relative sin level, as compared to a real hoe, from whatever level you think the capital sin of adultery is at, to whatever level of sin you think masturbation is, if you even see it as a sin.
Feminists and Churchians are going to come out in force against (beta) men having an option that doesn’t keep them enslaved and hearkening unto women’s str@pon.
The only thing the sexbot won’t do is produce children, but modern women have all but quit doing that themselves. Plus, as goddesses, it’s their right to kill your babies for convenience’s sake don’t cha know. /S
Advantages of an AI str@pon sexbot:
1) No intentional disrespect as I do for my fellow MAN & our founders constitution
2) No sh!t-tests, psychodrama, or mind games of who will take it in the rear
3) Always respectful, polite, and courteous
4) Always willing to have sex , and can go all night and day with your re@r
5) Replaceable/upgradeable parts: Stretch out her hoohoo, then replace it with a sturdy Swinger mike davis and jolly good ‘ole’ Jack-approved womanly strapon for all night sessions when the neighbors have left town😉
6) No fear of venereal diseases or her butthexting u without consent
7) No health issues, doesn’t age, does not need medical insurance
8) Won’t eat or drink your food, won’t get fat, needs nothing but recharge
9) May be upgradeable in the future, conversations will be more intelligently perverse
10) OK to have multiple sexbots, but could program them to fight over you and your alleged to be hung like a porn star’s c@ck that you tell others in an e-mail that it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not
11) Can work as an AI assistant answering questions and researching stuff like the hottest trends in gay porn and butthext or vice versa
12) Will never leave you nor forsake you, won’t run off with your friend while happily butthexting you
13) Home oriented, does not desire a career or need a car or fancy clothes
14) Never farts during str@pon sex, never gets sick, never has a headache
15) Never stinks up the bathroom, doesn’t use any cold or hot water
16) Doesn’t badmouth you behind your back or rear end
17) doesn’t blow any of your money on stuff for her just stuff for your well-known perversions of the flesh
18) Doesn’t care how you leave the toilet or the str@pon.
19) No nagging ever, unless she’s just begging you to pound her p@ssy or you’re b@ngh@le
my bros
20) Can be custom ordered exactly how you prefer, even if you’re ugly and not built like Arnie S. in the 1970s that you falsely claim as a deceiving ”loudmouth ”leader” chump” in the ‘sphere
Feel free to add more …
What The Freak?????
This (sexbots) has been spoken about on Incel / LoveShy pages and in their respected comments since 2010, perhaps earlier.
I still think its hilarious. They also spoke about “having artifical wombs” soon enough making women obsolete.
I can assure you that NO ONE. I mean NO ONE on the PUA / Game side of things would have ever dared entertain an idea like this as “rational and logical” and even “christian” a mere year ago.
In true Red Pill grifter fashion, they will now “deem” the idea perfectly logical and okay. They will say its not really sex. Not really porn. They will find a scripture or “therorhetical” situation in the Bible that makes this perfectly normal and okay.
“well, men cannot live without sex, and these sexbots will be better women than actual real women”
There was a “Twilight Zone Episode” from its first season in 1959 about a man exiled to an asteroid as a criminal. The government / penal system sent him a “female robot” to keep him company. It was 1959 so it could be “infered” of the intimacy that occured but nothing graphic. Anyway, his sentence is commuted or his punishment was deemed “cruel and unusual” and he got to return to Earth. The spacepod only has room for the escort that is picking him up and himself. He wants to bring the robot. The escort says “she isnt real” and he argues, a fight ensures……and the female robot is destroyed with exposed wires with gears, circuits and the like. He returns to his senses and realizes, she wasnt real.
Does Red Pill really want men like this? Do they really want all these “gammas” or whatever like this? Evidently they do. Their reasoning is simple “since they will not just “be alpha” and ask women out, and their numbers are growing…..we, the elect have to make them at least have some semblance of what we get naturally, daily or they will stop fixing our plumbing”
And notice too, its moving from “God loves you, and he created you in His image, and he looks at the heart”
To now
“Its all science, chemistry, genetics, pre-determined at birth” stuff. Some are indeed made in His image (us, the alphas, the good looking, the smart, the ones who bed tons of women or could) to the rest of those men who “just didnt follow our ideas, and they couldnt’ It was determined at birth genetically”
Cruel people. No redepmtion now. Just serve and obey. “The bible says so” they will tell you.
I still think re-education camps on the left will be armed guards and instead of swastikas on the armband, it will be a rainbow flag with a peace sign. However, on the right it will be “brave new world” with their Greek terms, classifications, your life determined at conception and most made to be expendale. A darker version of Gattica.
Neither is appealing. ALl of them are forgetting their sorrowful savior who told them to flee from evil. Demonstrated love, teaching, walking deeper and fellowship.
They believe little of this now. Its just a “virtue signal” of the right
An update from Jack on ”Active Persecution” from Charlie ”A faithful ”neutral” reader of SF slandered Gamma Jack’s poorly written, confusing, and voluminous anti-Vox post and SF is failing harder than ever bros IOTW help poor ‘ole Gamma Jack by getting the number of comments and pageviews back to early-mid 2021 levelz to s@ve dating, marriage, and civilization homies & maybe even donate to Gamma J@ck’s ”SF trying to save dating, marriage &civilization bros” gofundme campaign too huh?” post and stuff MOD.
Charlie says:
2024-06-21 at 7:54 pm
No offense, but there are some Gamma tells in this piece. This post feels like an attempt to subvert and diminish a higher-SSH man and his more highly-followed writing without confronting him head on but rather by casting aspersions.
This is a classically Gamma statement, “I would never write the things in this post about Beale, for the above reasons, except Determined Omega specifically asked.” Just picture this in a corporate setting…the Director of Marketing just HAS to tell the whole company about the CEO’s shortcomings, which he would “never do,” except the summer intern asked him a question.
You explicitly praise your alleged good intentions, including “we don’t want to dox him,” but you make sure to refer to him as Beale, unnecessarily, anyway.
And you basically accuse him of hypocrisy, but kind of obliquely, another indirect attack. “I got a question about hypocrisy. Here are some definitions of hypocrisy. Here are some details about “Beale.” I just want him to succeed.”
You’re right that Vox is not primarily concerned with how Gammas and Omegas deserve wives. But who cares? It doesn’t really make sense to complain that other writers aren’t focusing sufficiently on your preferred topics. This feels like a Gamma attempt to cloak your criticism in your own alleged concern for others.
Anyway, I think you should do a little self-reflection here. You clearly feel some rivalry or resentment of Vox, you clearly have some motivation, conscious or subconscious, to cast aspersions on him, and you clearly have some desire to obscure these negative emotions and intentions of yours–hiding behind concern for lower status guys and a fake obligation to publicly answer a question from an Omega.
Jack says:
2024-06-22 at 4:00 pm
Charlie’s comment is an excellent example of the kind of division via sociosexual stratification that surrounds Vox’s SSH — one of the main topics of this post.
The modus operandi goes something like this.
Identify specific words and behaviors of a targeted individual.
Draw a correlation to a low SSH type, e.g. Gamma or Omega.
Identify the target as avoidant, bitter, dishonest, dumb, envious, evasive, fake, fearful, obtrusive, resentful, etc.
Dismiss the target, and thereby his argument also, in a condescending and/or shaming manner.
It’s similar to the W0ke methods of shutting men down by calling them out as !ncels, r@c!sts, t0x!c, etc. It just uses different language and rhetorical devices. Instead of a hierarchy via intersectional oppression, we have a hierarchy via SSH type. Instead of sidelining men by calling them !ncels etc., we’re calling them Gammas or Omegas to the same effect.
Vox himself has done this many times, thereby setting an example for other men to follow. Now I see this kind of infighting everywhere in the Manosphere. This is why I said that Vox has created a divide (or stoked division if you prefer) using the SSH.
notelrac says:
2024-06-22 at 6:50 pm
Jack, you’re mistaken about the chronology. For literal decades Vox had been responding to anklebiters posting on his old blog by identifying them as avoidant, bitter, dishonest etc etc etc and dismissing/shaming them. Along came Game with its taxonomy of “Alpha f*ks and Beta bucks”. Vox then moved from Sexual Marketplace winners/losers by adding the Socio- part of Socio-Sexual and extended the taxonomy to Alpha leaders, Beta wingmen, Delta ordinary guys, Omega outcasts, and Gamma “Very Special Boy” anklebiters. Finally, Owen Benjamin renamed Beta to Bravo. Throw in the identification of sexual deviants as “Lambda”, and here we are.
So when Vox shames and bans a Gamma, he is continuing his long habit of evicting them from his blog space. Its just that now there is a taxonomy of the type of commenter, and a predictive model for how they will behave. One of the games on his new blog is “Spot the Gamma” by their initial post, and guessing how long it will be until they splerg out and get banned.
Finally, it is never necessary to sideline someone by calling them Omega. Why? Because an Omega, by definition, will not put themselves out in public. Determined Omega is one of those rare individuals who has decided to further themselves, and I applaud them for it.
notelrac says:
2024-06-22 at 8:49 pm
The latest Sigma Game post is a masterclass in how to recognize a Gamma commenter. If you strongly believe that this sociosexual stratification is divisive, I challenge you to raise your issues with the commentariat there.”
Also all a Gamma is is a ”Greater” or ”better” ”Omega”=least ranking MAN in social life-as incel became by 2014/’15 in the ‘sphere in standard PUA G@ME &early ”r@dpill” and ”Deltas” are ”lesser” ”betas”.
But Vox had to try to ”improve” it or get you into his ”frame” of mind or thinking about his ”brand” like Saint Rollo would say, if you will.
This is not the first time he has slandered Vox for this, it is at least the second time. The first time was the first time he used that same photo. In fact, if you look at the URL, you’ll see the date it was first used: April, 2022.
Go read what he said. Jack was complaining about persecution…
…and then slandered Vox. Who, exactly, is the one doing the persecuting? Based on his recent admission, when Jack said…
…he was actually mocking him for attending what Jack thought was an LGBTQ event. Considering that Jack was talking about persecution and the lack of respect shown to men, this is a pretty bad self-own that has yet to be corrected.
A Super-special Sunday update from Jack on ”Active Persecution” from Charlie ”A faithful ”neutral” reader of SF who slandered Gamma Jack’s poorly written, confusing, and voluminous anti-Vox post and SF is failing harder than ever bros IOTW help poor ‘ole Gamma Jack by getting the number of comments and pageviews back to early-mid 2021 levelz to s@ve dating, marriage, and civilization homies & maybe even donate to Gamma J@ck’s ”SF trying to save dating, marriage &civilization bros” gofundme campaign too huh?” post and stuff MOD.
Jack says:
2024-06-22 at 4:00 pm
Charlie’s comment is an excellent example of the kind of division via sociosexual stratification that surrounds Vox’s SSH — one of the main topics of this post.
The modus operandi goes something like this.
Identify specific words and behaviors of a targeted individual.
Draw a correlation to a low SSH type, e.g. Gamma or Omega.
Identify the target as avoidant, bitter, dishonest, dumb, envious, evasive, fake, fearful, obtrusive, resentful, etc.
Dismiss the target, and thereby his argument also, in a condescending and/or shaming manner.
It’s similar to the W0ke methods of shutting men down by calling them out as !ncels, r@c!sts, t0x!c, etc. It just uses different language and rhetorical devices. Instead of a hierarchy via intersectional oppression, we have a hierarchy via SSH type. Instead of sidelining men by calling them !ncels etc., we’re calling them Gammas or Omegas to the same effect.
Vox himself has done this many times, thereby setting an example for other men to follow. Now I see this kind of infighting everywhere in the Manosphere. This is why I said that Vox has created a divide (or stoked division if you prefer) using the SSH.
Charlie says:
2024-06-23 at 12:10 pm
@Jack, I think you’re misunderstanding me. Your post was about the SSH, so commenting with SSH context seemed reasonable. Your post was quite critical of Vox Day, and the criticism was delivered in a particular way, and so responding with some criticism of your critique also seemed reasonable.
My intention was not to divide, dismiss, or shame, but actually to edify. I was trying to point out how your post came across to me–it felt like an attempt to undermine someone indirectly, without being fully honest about your goals or motivation. Which I think made your post less effective, and I wanted to share that feedback with you.
It seems like you are slightly misunderstanding or misusing the concept of Gamma. Gamma is not just a less-fortunate low rank due to insufficient funds or insufficient handsomeness. Rather, Gamma behavior is subversive. Whereas Omegas or Deltas might try to improve their rank via loyalty and self-improvement, Gamma behavior is the attempt to improve one’s relative SSH rank via the shortcut of subverting the “undeserving” men higher in the hierarchy.
While Gamma behavior can be “effective” in a destructive way, it is rarely beneficial to the Gamma over the long term. Because the behavior is often more obvious to observers than to the Gamma himself. As Determined Omega explains, we should all try to avoid Gamma behavior. And that’s why pointing out possible Gamma behavior is not meant to be dismissive or divisive. It is meant to be helpful.”
This is similar to how ”geniuses” Jack and Sparkly misunderstand me, Derek and you MOD were telling them how non-practitioners of strict ”red pill”=”Game 2.0” orthodoxy like ourselves see them and they still dismiss us with their hypocritical, disparaging, and impugning lies of ”active persecution”, liars, glowie feds like themselves, when our intention is not to divide, dismiss, or shame, but actually to edify. I was trying to point out how your post came across to me–it felt like an attempt to undermine someone indirectly, without being fully honest about your goals or motivation. Which I think made your post less effective, and I wanted to share that feedback with you.
It seems like you are slightly misunderstanding or misusing the concept of Gamma. Gamma is not just a less-fortunate low rank due to insufficient funds or insufficient handsomeness. Rather, Gamma behavior is subversive. Whereas Omegas or Deltas might try to improve their rank via loyalty and self-improvement, Gamma behavior is the attempt to improve one’s relative SSH rank via the shortcut of subverting the “undeserving” men higher in the hierarchy.
While Gamma behavior can be “effective” in a destructive way, it is rarely beneficial to the Gamma over the long term. Because the behavior is often more obvious to observers than to the Gamma himself. As Determined Omega explains, we should all try to avoid Gamma behavior. And that’s why pointing out possible Gamma behavior is not meant to be dismissive or divisive. It is intended to be helpful.”’
Yeah see ”Gammas” NOT ”Geniuses” as supposed Jack and Sparkly see me, DEREK & LastMOD as “undeserving” men higher in the SSH/MMP/SMP hierarchy as pointed out by Charlie ”A faithful ”neutral” reader of SF who slandered Gamma Jack’s poorly written, confusing, and voluminous anti-Vox post and SF is failing harder than ever bros IOTW help poor ‘ole Gamma Jack by getting the number of comments and pageviews back to early-mid 2021 levelz to s@ve dating, marriage, and civilization homies & maybe even donate to Gamma J@ck’s ”SF trying to save dating, marriage &civilization bros” gofundme campaign too huh? ” post.
One final super special Sunday update from Jack on ”Active Persecution” from Charlie ”A faithful ”neutral” reader of SF who slandered Gamma Jack’s poorly written, confusing, and voluminous anti-Vox post and SF is failing harder than ever bros IOTW help poor ‘ole Gamma Jack by getting the number of comments and pageviews back to early-mid 2021 levelz to s@ve dating, marriage, and civilization homies & maybe even donate to Gamma J@ck’s ”SF trying to save dating, marriage &civilization bros” gofundme campaign too huh?” post and stuff MOD.
feeriker says:
2024-06-24 at 1:15 am
You don’t get to call yourself Supreme Dark Lord while simultaneously shirking the noblese oblige that comes with it.
I’ve always been curious as to why Teddy chose that title for himself. If I wanted to emphasize my Christian faith as part of my message, I would consider that to be a very inappropriate moniker. Darkness and hubris don’t exactly impart a Christian message, or inspire visions of humble Christian service to others.
Yeah, Feeriker is right there.
Jack says:
2024-06-24 at 1:43 am
Feeriker,
In my understanding, The Dark Lord is a particular role in the Kingdom mythos which plays the Devil’s Advocate for the purpose of revealing the glory of God. Kind of like how every good story has a bad guy, and without him, there just isn’t a story. In this sense, there is great honor and importance in playing the part of the villain. Think of Jack Nicholson or Lee Van Cleef. I learned this in a high school theatrical drama class.”
”Kind of like how every good story has a bad guy, and without him, there just isn’t a story. ”
Yeah just as Jack and Sparkly make themselves out to be holier than thou-”good guys”- but you might be a fed or someone who says ”you’re NOT real=true Christian”( and also supposed ”geniuses” yet unverified by qualified Bluepill and betaized churchian protocols of the glowie fed government that they supposedly despise) as by just disagreeing with them-as they are so close in glory and holiness as God their one and the same in their fedizied & feeble minds- while singing their own praises instead of GOD’S, MOSES AND JESUS’S while putting down ”other” MEN.
Also:
”In my understanding,”
Jack like other ”leaders” always trusts in their own and the ”redpill’s” strength and understanding. They miss what the HOLY Scripture says like here:
Proverbs 3:5
”Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;”
Hear that ”expert ” Jack and Sparkly? -who supposedly know NOT that their Betaized and blue-pilled spelling programs they use to write like ”expertz” say that ”churchian” is rightly spelled ”Christian” or ”churchMAN”
Watched a video of Jordon Peterson talking about how “strong” and “masculine” Orthodox Christianity is over the weekend.
All the comments from Orthodox Priests, and laity and ethnic Greek, Serbian, Russian heritages and the like cheering it on.
So, when is Jordon Peterson “converting” to Orthodoxy and “coming home” to the Real Church that “jesus” founded himself???
He’s not.
I have a co-worker who is Greek Orthodox. He is hardly some masculine man who spends his free time at the gym. He’s about 30 and is single and he complains that “there are no young women at his church”
Yet, he always makes slight digs at me about “Bible Christians” (Protestants). I have told him briefly about my history with the Salvation Army and I do consider myself a “cultural protestant” in the American sense. I told him if I ever returned to church, it would be Protestant. I asked him on Friday “So, do Orthodox Christians read the Bible? Do they believe it?”
“Its not our place to discuss that in our church, because when Jesus founded the church…our church….there wasnt a Bible yet.”
I also posed “Where did Jesus say the name of his Church will have “ethnic / cultural” names before it? I though the faith was for all?”
He called me bitter of course and “typical protestant” and I asked about the Cross in Orthodoxy and he couldnt answer why it differs from the Catholic one with a broken, bloodied savior and the Protestant one which does model what the Romans used for Crucifixion in that era and time.
Couldnt answer. “My church was founded by Jesus and if you believe Him, all should be orthodox. Period. Everything else is wrong”
So ignorance is everywhere, even in this REAL church. Still wondering why Jordon Peterson hasnt become an Orthodox, since its the perfect embodiment of masculinity…..
Hey, MOD & Derek guys like Catacomb Resident=Tomb Refugee, Saint theDeti &Feeriker want us to increase our communitarian support & Godly MENness now more than ever!
”Tomb Refugee says:
2024-06-25 at 4:29 am
I’m counseling a fellow facing divorce rape from a wife lusting to go whoring. He’s just one example of something that is killing us all: Nobody (no man in his community) wants to stand with him. I mentioned the shepherd image on the last post for a reason. We need the kind of communitarian support that men like King David had. Not the crap that has hijacked that term in the West today, but the real deal from the society Jesus sought to bring forward from His nation’s better days. Women know how to be collective, but our western heritage pretty much forbids men doing that. The model that men are supposed to make it alone is anti-biblical. I think it’s time to break that rule. Men need to be men — together — simply because it’s how God designed us, never mind whether it gets us anything. Let God take care of that part.
thedeti says:
2024-06-25 at 4:45 am
Good on you. Men like you, Professor GBFM, Derek & LastMOD councilee need other Godly men to stand with them. And we as the Body need to be able to help them walk away, even in the face of divorce rape. He needs support to have the courage to tell his wayward wife “What you are doing is wrong and I won’t accept it. Adultery breaks all bargains and I will divorce you.”
And we as a church need to do the same thing. Her church, her local Body, needs to tell her “you’re wrong, you cannot do this and remain in fellowship and communion with this body.” Most local churches flat out refuse to do this out of fear of being labeled “judgmental” and “mean spirited” and “sexist/misogynist”.
I had a good friend about 12 years ago whose wife left him out of unhappiness and financial problems. They never had a lot of money and were in constant financial turmoil. Only one pastor and one woman found it within themselves to, meekly and mildly, tell her “you don’t have grounds to leave your husband” and “remember ‘for better, for worse’ and ‘for richer for poorer’? Remember you took those vows? This is the ‘for worse’ and ‘for poorer’ part. God expects you to walk this out and keep your vows.”
She left him anyway; and they were divorced 6 months later. She left our congregation and moved on to another who welcomed her with “you go girl, yass slay kween” and “you’re loved here, not judged”. Most people in our own congregation stayed silent for fear of alienating her or appearing ‘judgy’.
feeriker says:
2024-06-25 at 5:17 am
Women know how to be collective, but our western heritage pretty much forbids men doing that. The model that men are supposed to make it alone is anti-biblical. I think it’s time to break that rule. Men need to be men — together — simply because it’s how God designed us, never mind whether it gets us anything. Let God take care of that part.
The thought of men teaming up and looking out for each other absolutely terrifies the demons who rule over us. Any awakening by men to cooperate with one another for their common good will provoke a satanic backlash unlike anything anyone has ever before witnessed – which is of course all the more reason Godly men like Catacomb Resident=Tomb Refugee,professorGBFM, Derek, and LastMOD have to do it.
See I told you so!😉
My twelve years in that side of the sphere overall made me more isolated and miserable. As it would to most men who are not born with PSALMS, or LAMPS or whatever they are calling it this week.
The results show it as well. Still blaming loser men, cucked pastors, feminism for all the reasons why their ideas-just-have-not-caught-on
Much of it is themselves. Always better than you. Always know more. Did more. Your experience has no value your opinions are not right. You could fall in-lockstep with them on everything they say and still it would be “ummm, no….you see God actually says this and meant this. Still not doing it right. Spend another ten years practicing and run it by us then, and we’ll still find you to be inferior, and we’ll still remind you of how bad you are. If you thrown in the towel, we’ll tell you that you just like being miserable and women hate this and that, and dont like…..”
Cassanovas all of them. The bible verses come out when they are cornered usually. My dad once said, the last straws of WEAK MEN are patriotism, politics and proclaiming their christian faith.
Not that these things are bad in themself. You just have to look at who is screaming the loudest about them.
Pingback: Habitually Being Wrong
Pingback: Repentence