Here is the series of responses to Deti so far:

Part 1 — Hypergamy is a Myth
Part 2 — Hypergamy Note
Part 3 — Luck

Today we will discuss:

Part 4 — Reasons for Divorce

Well the conditions at Spawny’s Space only improved for a few days before going back to business as usual. After proving mathematically that luck has nothing to do with marriage results, categorically disproving the claim that I got lucky, Deti insisted…. wait for it….

Alright, whatever. I proved that luck could not have anything to do with it, but he’s still talking about luck (!?!?).

If someone gets proven wrong and then insists that they are still right as if the proof never occurred, what more is there to say about it?

I encourage everyone who agrees with Bruce here…

…to stop reading. For everyone else (I see you Professor!), let’s move on to the next topic for now.

After today, I have nine more comments in the series (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here) plus any newer response. At one per day, five times per week, plus a few other related posts, this is going to take at least two weeks (especially if I don’t consistently meet my publishing deadlines, which is a distinct possibility).

I have no idea where Deti gets this unsubstantiated idea. He doesn’t say. So let’s take the time to substantiate why his claim is false.

Let’s begin with the observation that there are many studies and surveys which have examined reasons why women get divorced. The first page of Google results gives quite a few, including these: here, here, and here. At the top of most lists, varying anywhere from 30% to 90% is infidelity (depending how you count). In most lists it is one of the top 3 reasons given, quite often the number one reason given. One of the other significant reasons, hitting around 10% of all divorces—one in ten!—is substance abuse.

Neither of these statistics—accounting for nearly half or more of all divorces—cohere with Deti’s claims. Just as we found with his claim about being “lucky,” we’ve already disproven the central assertion of his thesis without even putting forth any effort at all.

But let’s continue by making the following observations.

First, men are not fine with living with the consequences of their own actions. Men cheat, a lot. Regardless of why they cheated—including the case of wives neglecting their husbands—the fact is that the number one reason for divorce doesn’t involve men being content with their selections. Men quite frequently blow up their marriages by being unfaithful.

Second, women cheat a lot too. With infidelity as a leading cause, women are not just primarily blowing up their marriages because they think they can do better, they are blowing up their marriages by being unfaithful.

The most detrimental thing that can occur to marriage is infidelity. As I noted in “On Divorce: Redux” a few days ago, sexual immorality is the only thing that scripture identifies as even possibly justifying a man getting a legal certificate of divorce. Infidelity is really bad. I also noted this:

Love can even overcome even infidelity, but as the divorce stats show, infidelity is the most likely thing that just goes too far and ends a marriage. In general, infidelity is a step too far.

In short, the problem is definitely not primarily with woman being discontent with assortative pairing or some nebulous desire to “do better.” It is with infidelity blowing up a marriage. Nor is it the case that only women are the problem. Infidelity is a problem facing both men and women.

But the key problem with Deti’s thesis—that women are the cause and men are not to blame—is that men are unfaithful twice as much as women:

The blame is clearly shared, thus Deti’s thesis continues to fail to find support.

But let’s briefly consider the claim that there are women blowing up their marriages because they are unhappy and think they can do better. Is there any evidence to support that claim at all? I believe so. Consider these top reasons given for marital (dis)satisfaction.

Some of these factors are clearly compatible with Deti’s thesis. So what he is saying probably does happen, but it just isn’t the sole factor in a majority of divorces, let alone a majority of marriages. What he describes is likely real, but it is a minority of a minority. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, per se, but that he’s massively overblown the incidence of what he describes.

I often note a simple heuristic. If people are making absolutist claims about a complex topic, they are probably wrong. Not always, of course, but quite often. That’s why I find claims like this…

…to be highly suspect. It’s just trivial to show that men and women both routinely make choices that destroy their marriages, and that men are more likely to cheat than women. It’s not clear why Deti thinks he can make such obviously false statements. The only explanation I can think  of is that few, if any, other people are willing to call him out on it. A lack of accountability can lead to some truly wild conclusions.

Now let’s look continue looking at Deti’s comment:

While I was writing this post, Surfdumb posted this comment about me:

Over the last few days I’ve repeatedly asserted that I have a high view of agency. I so strongly respect a man’s patriarchal rights that I think it actually harmful to deny him the consequences—whether good or bad—of his own choices, and as Surfdumb suggested, God’s allowance. Each man is his own sovereign.

So I can respect Deti’s claim that he has come to terms with the choices he has made and what he has gotten out of his life. But, I’m not sure I’d describe him as accepting it without complaint, given his comments in the past, but I certainly encourage every man to take charge of his own situation. Unfortunately, that all breaks down:

This is not a man taking charge of his own situation and being content with the consequences of his own decisions. This is assigning blame to someone else.

It seems that approximately a third of divorces are caused by a man’s bad behavior (e.g. infidelity; substance abuse). The exact figure isn’t really the point. The point is that it’s not just the fault of women. Blaming women for all divorces is not only factually wrong, but it also flushes a man’s agency down the toilet.

I don’t think that Deti understood what I meant when I said:

Finding fault with and blaming women is not introspective, it is extrospection. Concluding that you got exactly what you should have gotten in a mate—based on assortative mating—is being content with your lot in life. But, all that goes away when you shift the blame for your status onto something or someone external to yourself. Moreover, going online and vigorously complaining about the supposed status quo is rather obviously not being content!

But let’s take a quick step back and reread something:

Let’s be careful and acknowledge that Deti has qualified his statement. He’s saying that only women fail to “accept getting their own value’s worth” in marriage.

Are women, even in general, more discontent with their station than men? Perhaps they are. I believe that’s probably true, though I’d prefer some hard numbers to back that up. But let’s say, for sake of argument, that as far as this issue is concerned, he’s completely right. Even so, the scale of what he’s describing is not all that significant.

Over the last few days we’ve been debating female hypergamy—that is, looks-based hypergamy rooted primarily in sexual attraction—as an overriding principle that is supposed to apply to more-or-less all women. There is simply no way to get from “here” to “there.” Even being as generous as possible, what Deti describes is a minority of a minority. There is no way you can derive anything remotely close to universal female hypergamy from the available data. It just isn’t supported by the evidence.

There are many reasons for divorce, but hypergamy doesn’t appear to be a significant factor. Perhaps we’ll explore this in more detail in the coming days, or maybe Deti will provide evidence or proof. For now, that’s one comment down with nine more to go. I’m going to continue taking these comments seriously, avoiding flippancy, and so give them the time and attention that they require.

As a brief aside, some of the reasons women give for initating divorce include the following:

• Emotional unhappiness caused by emotional neglect, poor communication, or feeling unappreciated.
• Desire for a better relationship (Deti’s thesis, maybe)
• Financial reasons
• Infidelity
• “Growing Apart” (Deti’s thesis, probably)
• Issues of equality and inequality

While two of these seem to support Deti’s thesis, Deti implies that women are motivated by impulsiveness or discontent, qualities that imply willfulness. Research suggests that dissatisfaction—which does not imply willfulness—is the primary reason. I suspect that Deti would say that these are the same thing. Perhaps they are.

This last item on the list is particularly interesting in light of the Red Pill wisdom that says that women want a man who is strong and commanding. Yet, women will sometimes divorce a man if she doesn’t feel like they are a team on equal footing. Ironic, that.