I’ve been writing recently about women and how they are treated by society as having “Limited Agency.” I have also, for some time, implored the men in the Manosphere to stop treating women as scapegoats and to take full agency over their own destiny. Well here is that sentiment expressed by John C. Wright with respect to the breakdown in social norms in the UK.
Any father with a teenaged daughter will have a more primal and direction emotional reaction to this news.
To those of you who are not fathers with teen daughters, let me explain it this way: the only reason, I say again, the only reason why fathers tolerate the annoyances, servility, self-abnegation, self-control, and cost in taxes and obedience to lawful authority, the only reason why we adhere to a code of gentlemanly politeness and do not kill all who exasperate us with truncheons made from the thigh-bone of an antelope, I say for a third time, the sole reason, is because we think that civilization and obedience to a well ordered society will promote more safety and wellbeing for our daughters.
Our sons, for men like us, should be able to take care of themselves. We showed them how to make a truncheon from the thighbone of an antelope, and so they are on their own.
Now, that is the trade. That is the deal. That was the bargain made in prehistoric times between some primordial King John and his primordial barons at the primitive equivalent of Runnymede.
The terms of this prehistoric Great Charter were simple enough that men without letters could remember them: protect our daughters, ye who are the strongest in the tribe, and in return we will bow and call you master, treat each other with civility and respect, will send our sons to die in your wars, and give you a tithe of the firstfruits of the hunt and of the fields, and show you such signs of honor as you demand.
In a monarchy, the sovereign is a man, and the sovereign power passes through his bloodline. In a democracy, the sovereignty is a mob, and the sovereign power passes by the whim of the majority. In a republic, the sovereignty are elected agents or representatives of the majority, but their office is hedged and fenced with laws and principles even the sovereign, out of due respect for the law, dare not overstep. But the sovereign bargain is still the same.
…
Because we civilized men have not changed on whit from our savage forefathers. Civilization is a thin veneer, a shell of armor. Once it cracks, the beast re-emerges.
Only our weapons are better and our methods more cruel now in the Atomic Age than in the Stone Age. Now that you and yours have broken the covenant that protects our daughters, we have no reason to have the least particle of mercy on you.
Be warned.
It has been and always will be the case that men are on their own, because they are full agents. Society does not exist for them and it never has. Men, ultimately, do not need civilization.
Higher order civilization exists, ultimately, as an informal collective agreement by the men for the benefit of the women. Civilization collapses when what society, culture, and government offer to women is no longer good.
Wright’s essay also touches on the other topic we discuss here: blankslatism.
Evan Sayet in his book KINDERGARDEN OF EDEN proposes that the Left is fascinated and obsessed with the idea (which you can hear them express endlessly in endless variations, from the use of the word ‘diversity’ to the lyrics of the execrable hymn to socialist atheism ‘Imagine’ by John Lennon) that the cause of violence, inequity, social ills, and human unhappiness is discrimination.
The theory is that if people made no judgments, no judgments whatsoever, about each other, and never harbored a single critical thought, then differences between persons would vanish, and when those differences vanish, all the causes of war and unhappiness would vanish.
You see? Get rid of private property, and theft vanishes! Get rid of self-defense, and murder vanishes! Get rid of religion, and religious wars vanish! Get rid of human life, and human caused pollution vanishes!
But by discrimination, the Leftist, before his brain rots, means unfair, bigoted, or biased judgments, such as condemning a man as a thief for his skin color. After his brain rots, the Leftist means all judgments, such as condemning a thief for his thefts. After the brain rot, the Leftist condemns all judgments of value as discriminatory.
A judgment of value is what allows us to discriminate between virtue and vice, pretty and ugly, as well as good and evil.
There is only one way to abolish all judgments of value: detract and vilify all virtues and virtuous men, and also praise and glorify all vices and vicious men.
Blankslatism starts by denying that dissimilarity exists (“that’s discrimination!”), and it ends—as it must!—with denying that morality and judgments of value exist.
It has been and always will be the case that men are on their own, because they are full agents. Society does not exist for them and it never has. Men, ultimately, do not need civilization.
Higher order civilization exists, ultimately, as an informal collective agreement by the men for the benefit of the women. Civilization collapses when what society, culture, and government offer to women is no longer good.
That last line should have been ”Civilization collapses when what society, culture, and government, and Dalrock and his loyal flock of Frankfartians want to rebuild the church around serving women’s butt and gina tinzgzlzlzozozolzooz instead of serving Jesus and Moses, offer to women is no longer good.”😉
You know i know one guy(but this isn’t rare, especially today, see places such as West Virginia & the rust belt , non-”good MEN of the manosphere” read this article https://www.aei.org/articles/behind-west-virginias-opioid-crisis-an-addiction-to-money/- ”good MEN of the manosphere? read this article https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/men-women-rust-belt/525888/ – ‘All the Men Here Are Either on Drugs or Unemployed’
The disappearance of manufacturing and the rise of opioid abuse has hit men in the Rust Belt hard. That’s meant women are left to pick up the pieces.” and say ”those poor defilers just need a good MENZ like myself who isn’t on drugs and is employed!”) who ”mysteriously”( to others, as i know what he does just as many others too, who have paid him upfront for stuff they want done that -”sleeps” in bed all day.) What is he doing where he ”sleeps” all day long? Drugs (of course)mainly ”withdrawals” from them. You didn’t see this from a mile away(just like all the people who don’t ”get” what’s going on with guys like that?) He really thinks that people are organized in ”society” for his benefit, just like he uses the Bible and Jesus as a front(now see why i semi-agreeed with Boxer that too many ”Christians” were scumbags?), to keep people from thinking ill of him(he long ago lost his wife and kids)but he is still ”babied” by most he knows. When the ever-looming collapse comes, where will he be? Most likely, like most ”RP Genius” ”leaders” still blaming MEN & defiler women for their own lack of manliness and wondering ”Master Spiritual teachers Trump, ST.DAL’ & ST.Rollo(”RP Genius” ”leaders” sacred trinity), why didn’t thou save me and my unmanliness as I marched in pro-life parades and yelled ”I’m better than those d*mn dirty leftist libs” all the time?”
You just know all the gamey game & goodness came out of the ”good MEN of the manosphere” when they read this from their article above
”CHILLICOTHE, Ohio—Heroin robbed Tracey Kemper-Hermann of her husband, and sometimes she misses him most when she’s trying to start her lawnmower. Her husband, Jason, had his own special trick to getting the finicky machine running, and since his death in 2014, the responsibility of cutting the grass has fallen to Kemper-Hermann. She’s accumulated other tasks too, like a sherpa adding more and more weight until her back might break. It’s not just figuring out how to support a family on one income. She has to change the flat tire on her daughter’s 2004 Dodge Neon, and navigate the difficulties of parenting, like deciding what to say when her daughter, now 17, comes downstairs wearing shorts that are just too short. “She’s a super good kid, but if she doesn’t come home when she’s supposed to, I think to him, ‘Why did you leave me alone with a teenager?’” ”
Poor helpless super good kid defilers like her need good MEN who read Dalrock & Vox’s churchian gamey game to meet their needs, and it pains them to know she goes without it every day and night!😊😉😎😇
What a bunch of drivel. I have always thought that John C. Wright incarnates all what is wrong with so-called American conservatism. If the blue pill was a man, it would be John C. Wright.
1) The pedestalizing. The only cause for civilization is protecting daughters. The sons have to protect themselves. Really? So the police is only for females?
But even worse,
2) The posturing. “Now that you and yours have broken the covenant that protects our daughters, we have no reason to have the least particle of mercy on you. Be warned.” Words, words, words. What are you going to do? To write more on your blog?
Then, after patting himself on the back for being such a mensch, the American conservative follows the law written by his enemies until the last letter. After doing their “I am the man. Look at me. Grrr” routine, they go grilling while their enemies enslaven him .
For the last 50 years, this kind of American conservatives have been all bark and no bite. “Beware if you cross this red line!” All the red lines have been crossed and new red lines have been crossed too until exhaustion. The country is being invaded by foreigners, your sons and daughters perverted, and progressives control the culture, the banks, the schools, the media, etc. But the American conservatives is giving warnings: “Don’t cross that line! You will see what I am capable of”. I am capable of saying “don’t cross the following line!”
“The only reason why […] do not kill all who exasperate us with truncheons made from the thigh-bone of an antelope, I say for a third time, the sole reason, is because we think that civilization and obedience to a well ordered society will promote more safety and wellbeing for our daughters.”
No, the only reason is because you are a bunch of cowards. Spare me the BS.
Nadie,
That’s quite the emotional outburst there. I’m not going to dignify that with any further response. You’re on the wrong blog if you want validation. Instead, let’s talk about the substance of your comment.
No, you should go back and carefully read what he actually said. What he describes is the ultimate (or overriding) purpose of civilization (“the only reason”), not its sole function. Men absolutely benefit from civilization, but civilization doesn’t exist to serve men.
When civilization starts to crack, it is the women who will suffer most. This includes self-inflicted suffering. For example, from the Red Pill perspective, the woman who blows up her marriage is harming herself much more than she is harming her ex-husband. He’ll find a way to survive and make something of himself, but she’ll descend into metaphorical—and sometimes literal, as SSRI usage suggests—madness.
Men don’t need civilization to thrive as men, but they’ll build civilization if they can. If not? They’ll go their own way.
Sure, you’ll get no argument from me. Indeed, I blame men for letting it happen. Men built civilization and men are allowing it to be destroyed. If they wanted to stop it, they could, and they wouldn’t need permission to do it.
After all, when the Bible says…
…it is clear that the fault is not with the youths and the women who are wreaking havoc, but with the men who allowed themselves to be led astray:
…
For Jerusalem has stumbled and Judah has fallen because their tongue and their actions are against Yahweh, rebelling before the eyes of his glory. The look of their faces testifies against them. They parade their sin like Sodom. They do not hide it. Woe to their soul! For they have brought disaster upon themselves. Tell the righteous it will go well with them, for they will eat the fruit of their deeds. Woe to the wicked! Disaster is upon them, for the deeds of his hands will be paid back to him.
The collapse of their civilization was brought on by the men themselves for turning away from God. It is no different today. I mean, look at this:
Arguably, the most important virtue of modern society is to parade your sin like Sodom. And, it must be said, to be proud of it. Can you imagine a parade dedicated to sin and pride? I can.
You are too impatient.
Massive changes tend to happen incrementally over lengthy periods of time. If they went faster, people would react to them and stop them. I wrote about this in “Too Slow To React In Time.” Corruption is gradual.
But you can’t fight the inevitable. Effect follows cause. You can’t hold back the tide of self-refutation. It took a while, but anti-discrimination and mindless tolerance led inexorably to the destruction of judgment of the selfsame virtues they were originally based upon, and, indeed, of virtue itself. Wright correctly describes the process by which the destruction takes place, the way values are inverted and vice becomes the new virtue.
That said, I agree with you to a point. Wright’s primary failing is that he can’t accurately predict the future, because he’s a hardcore right-wing Republican conservative.
I prefer Bruce Charlton’s explanation more than John C. Wright’s, in that the decline will not be revolutionary, but lame, boring, and mundane. We are destined for suffocation (almost literally, in the case of Canada’s euthanasia policy), not civil war. Politics will not save us.
Peace,
DR
Well, thank you for your answer. It was not my intention to make it emotional, but English is not my native language and I am not subtle. I am not American although I lived in America in the past. I think that we mostly agree. Only some details:
But he says “the only cause”. In addition, I don’t think the ultimate purpose of civilization is to protect females. It is to protect the community: current and future generations.
Since women (and kids) are more biologically valuable than men, they are more protected. If you kill half of the men, the women can produce the same amount of kids for the next generation. This is not possible if you kill half of the women. This is why “women and kids first”.
Yes, it exists because of men (and women and kids). So beta men can have wives instead of alpha men having harems. So men can have more food and a better existence than living in a clan of hunter-gatherers.
Completely agree
Well, I disagree. If civilization disappeared tomorrow, the next year the vast majority of men will be dead. Some men would survive in a brute existence (not “thriving”, barely surviving). I know that Western movies tend to present men like loners living outside society (this is so American) but this has never been true since the Neolithic revolution.
I have lived around the world and the pedestalizing in America is something I have not seen anywhere. Yes, in all societies, women are more valuable than men (because of the biological reasons I have mentioned). But , in America, they are treated like a superior species. This predates feminism (Jung noticed it) and it is the reason why feminism is so virulent there. John C. Wright has always been very bad in this area (I have followed his blog for years). This is an American feature than foreigners see better because it is like the air you breathe.
This John C.Wright sentence: “Our sons, for men like us, should be able to take care of themselves. We showed them how to make a truncheon from the thighbone of an antelope, and so they are on their own.” seems very cruel to me. Of course, men have to be taught to be as independent as possible. But most kids suffer of emotional neglect. If you are a man, you can be in the most distressing situation of your life. Nobody gives a damn. If you are a woman, every ridiculous complaint is treated like a real problem. I think it is completely unbalanced. Men should be stronger than women (because they must) but everything has a limit. Men are human beings and not robots. The John Wayne character has lots of things boiling inside him.
Agreed and this was exactly my point. When you have done nothing for the last 50 years while your country (and mine) have been destroyed and conquered, it is ridiculous to brag about how baddie and dangerous you are. Your words sound ridiculous. Words are only an alibi not to take action. Maybe you don’t think that taking action is useful. Ok. But don’t try to do “I am a man. Hear me roar” routine. It is like a whore bragging about chastity.
I agree too.
As have I. I cite him regularly because he is rational and makes rational arguments. I can interact with his material without suffering from countless logical fallacies or being subjected to whining and screeching. He’s the only Roman Catholic I know who can consistently address the substance of the anti-Catholic arguments without going into hysterics or worse.
Of course, as one who opposes Roman Catholicism, I often disagree with him. And, I especially disagree with him on politics, but because I try to stay ~95% apolitical, I mostly just ignore that stuff.
Again, I implore you to read what he actually wrote. Wright never uses the word ’cause’ in that first snippet I posted. There he emphasizes the “only” and “sole” reason (not ’cause’) for civilization three different times.
But even if he had used the word ’cause’, the semantic range of that English word is wide enough that it can encompass the synonymous meaning as “reason.”
You are not persuaded. Fair enough.
Ironically, women and children first got people killed on the Titanic. One side of the ship implemented the policy while the other side did not. Consequently, the side that did not implement the policy saved more people. Moreover, their lifeboats had sufficient men to man the oars. “Women and children first” is not intuitive. During the evacuation of the Titanic, husbands, wives, and families naturally rebelled against it.
The policy is an example of broken civilization, not an example of fully functional civilization.
If you are a woman, every ridiculous complaint is treated like a real problem. I think it is completely unbalanced.
Of course it is imbalanced!
It has always been the case in every time and place that society and culture treat women as if they have limited agency. A double-standard always exists.
For example, you correctly noted how in America women have long been especially pedestalized in a particularly feminist way. But, the American way is just a difference in the specific implementation, not a difference in overall concept.
The double-standard exists everywhere else, it just takes different forms. I am by no means defending the American way, but I’m not naive enough to think that all the alternatives are automatically better. I don’t, for example, envy the Islamic patriarchy that is descending upon the UK (and elsewhere in Europe).
American men will put up with a lot of feminism if it means their wives and daughters can go out safely without threat of being raped. Americans have different priorities, but they still view women as having limited agency, just everyone else.
Only in (some forms of) Christianity can you derive the principle of full agency for women. It is because America is so deeply biblical in its traditions that you see it “pedestalizing” women. What you mock is a reflection of its attempt to implement the biblical way in a secular society. Sure, like Christian Nationalism, it fails miserably, but it’s not pedestalizing in the way that you think it is.
There is this underlying belief (or axiom) that women and men are true equals, no matter what the evidence says. Americans, in theory, want this to be true more than anything else.
So ingrained is limited female agency in the secular mind, that when Americans try to grant women full agency they look like complete lunatics to everyone else. The idea that women might be treated as the equals of men is such an insane idea! It’s obviously folly.