Voting Day

On Voting Day, it is fitting that Feeriker put together a collection of links about not voting in “Some Of Us Are Staying Home, And Here’s Why.”

Regarding the critics…

Comment by Sharkly

Lame excuses! Whatever you think is better to do than voting, you can do that and vote also. Abdication of your vote just means that the evil gets more say, and you choose to have zero say.

The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. ~ George Jean Nathan

Did God put you here on this earth to abstain from the clash between good and evil? Maybe, in your case, He created you to fall to Satan’s demoralization? But not in the case of us men whom God can count on to not get demoralized and to have our say, always calling for what we think is the lesser evil, rather than the greater one. Otherwise, by letting the greater evil win without a fight you have shown your moral worth at this moment of such simple testing. You’re embarrassing yourself eternally by advocating the moral foolishness you’ve posted above. You’re asked to make your preferences know, and you’d rather risk more of the next generation being aborted or castrated than to lift a finger.

You choose to be an undependable servant of God, just because you worry over the evil side cheating. But, by getting you to abdicate your moral duty to exercise what little dominion you have been afforded by our government, Satan wins regardless of what happens. Like in the parable of the talents, Satan got you to bury the opportunity the Lord had lent you, so that even that might soon be taken from you. Some blue haired tattooed Feminist harpy is going to vote for Marxism unopposed, because you got fooled into being too demoralized to vote opposing her. And our progeny will ultimately suffer from our foolishness, or flourish by our wisdom.

…I’ve written about this in the past:

Fighting Evil or Doing Good?
Review: Do we “Resist the devil” or “Resist not evil”?

The only way Christians resist evil is by evangelizing (or, making disciples) and doing good. Voting doesn’t do that. The Parable of the Sower, like the Parable of the Talents, is about a harvest of souls.

On this voting day, repent and make Jesus your Lord. The angels are accurately and precisely counting each and every one of those votes, and cheering for each one.

50 Comments

  1. Derek L. Ramsey

    Some of my problems with voting include:

    (1) If God is bringing judgment on America, and I believe that he is, then they will vote in—or fraudulently appoint—whoever God wants to win. Whichever candidate it is—or even a protest civil war—that is where God’s judgment lies. I can no more change the path of God’s judgment by voting than anyone else can. Only once the hearts of man change can judgment be avoided.

    (2) If Satan ran a convention of pastors, and Sharkly was asked to speak, what would he do if half of the pastors at the conference were women? Would he refuse to participate or would he preach a sermon against women pastors, undermined by the fact that he was supporting and legitimizing the very institution—the conference of Satan—that promoted them? Which resists more: opposing Satan directly and absolutely, or opposing him only after agreeing to his terms?

    (3) Every candidate promotes evil. “Vote for the least bad candidate” is moral utilitarianism, which is not Christian. For example, would Sharkly vote for a Democrat who supports abortion if his opponent was a Republican woman taking authority from men? One Christian might decide that abortion is worse than woman-rule while another takes the opposite stance. Sharkly’s “vote to resist evil” stance implies that there exists a clear and unambiguous right and a clear wrong choice. This is obviously not the case.

    1. I never cease to be amazed at the level of near psychosis that the issue of voting brings out in so many of the American people. American Evangelical Christians, in particular, seem to devote emotional and spiritual energy to temporal politics that they seldom, if ever, devote to evangelizing the Gospel of Jesus. That, to me, reveal a great deal about where their real priorities lie.

      I struggle to picture First Century Christians obsessing over who would replace Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, or Nero as Caesar. The idea is pure absurdity, given what Christians were focused on.

  2. Lastmod

    “If voting made any difference, they wouldn’t let you do it”

    Mark Twain 1873

    What of Jesus? He never demanded an audience with Caesar and said “let my people be free”

    He never called for an armed rebellion, and he KNEW human follow would do this…..thus the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD by the Romans. He even mentioned the temple being destroyed.

    Jesus didnt concern himself with the politics of the day. He knew “teachers of the law” were evil / wicked in their hearts and lost of God, or misguided. Never once called for a “rebellion” and in fact, the political class wanted a “leader” or “king” who was going to to just that.

    Paul asked for appeal with Caesar (as every Roman citizen could indeed ask) for his case. Paul did not “meet” with Caesar. He met more than likely with his counsul / representatives for his case. As we knew, his case was denied and of course was put to death. If Paul met with Caesar it would have been recorded. The Romans kept excellent records on these matters….but somehow “forgot” about Paul (rolls eyes)

    You have a choice as a US citizen to vote or not to….and in many places now, you dont even have to be a citizen.

    I, at one time held the notion of “no vote? no gripe!” but now, and for awhile………I realized that voting does little or nothing. Here in California, we passed a ballot measure for car insurance, we were overbilled and had been. Well, it passed. It was taken to court and thrown out. As with most ballot measures out here…..unless it is a measure that outwardly IS against the Constitution and then somehow it stands.

    Voting doesnt really change a thing at this point (if it ever did).

    And look at the options……..these two clowns are the best the USA could put up and out to the voter.

    But Trump once invoked a book in the Bible “Two Cornthians” lol….so he must be the right choice (rolls eyes)

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “I realized that voting does little or nothing”

      As I routinely point out on Twitter, in 2020 the governor of Pennsylvania mandated a host of illegal mandates, including stay at home mandates and business closures and restrictions. Some of these were challenged in the state supreme court and struck down, but only after they had been withdrawn (at the end of spring 2020) and the damage was already done.

      Other illegal mandates, such as the mask mandates, continued. So on May, 18, 2021 the people of Pennsylvania amended their constitution to restrict the governor’s emergency powers. Even when the legislature used its powers to end the governor’s mandates, the illegal mask mandate continued until the end of June. It would eventually get struck down by the PA supreme court in December, 2021, far after it was too late to undo the damage.

      In the face of such wanton tyranny, voting is pointless.

      “Two Cornthians”

      It was always suitably ironic that Trump was (unintentially) correct. “Two Corinthians” is not the second letter to the Corinthians. It is at least his third letter. We do not have the missing letter.

      1. Lastmod

        Also…..”spending bills” are not in the Constitution. The Congress submits and approves a budget. There is wrangling. It may not get approved. Back again. Then when approved, sent to the Senate. They approve or send it back to the Congress. Then it is sent to the President. He can Veto. And it can be overridden by 2/3rds majority. If not over-ridden…back downstairs it goes.

        This is civics 101.

        Its hard work. Something NO ONE does anymore in the Congress and Senate. Sure, Sen Cotton “talks tough” and asks questions. And Chuk Schmer maybe “powerful” in his decisions….but ALL of them are guilty of not following “the constitution” and they keep kicking the can downward, inventing “rules” and mudslinging each other.

        The second the Republicans didnt win in 1996…..all the investigations went full throttle on then president Clinton.

        They dont do their jobs. The Constitution being “invoked” by both sides is only when it is convenient to do so. They all look down on us and hate us if truth be told.

  3. Surfdumb

    Thanks for allowing to post something that is not in the same vein as the rest of you. Here is what I wrote at SS,

    “Saw the NY flip/peanut post above. Hope you are right, but I feel a closer version of 2022 coming. Red wedding was a bloodbath. I like Steve Deace, but he said a recent poll about Harris plus 3 in Iowa is crazy. No, what’s crazy is the left and the lack of interaction we have directly with those crazies. I live and work with them. Life has me better prepared to understand the evil then my church has prepared me. That’s partly why I see the 2020 and 2022 trend continued.

    With all this hopium being broadcast by red media, what I don’t see on the ground is any lesser intensity of the evil left. I sure don’t see any increase of boldness for Trump. I mean in real life. Great, someone can post a few videos of MAGA blacks. Excellent for clicks, not for understanding reality.

    This is a judgment of our churches. We didn’t change them for better from the inside, so now they’ll be extinguished via persecution.

    We (Christians) failed.”

    I don’t agree that the best witness is one that says,

    “evil, eh, it’s going to happen anyhow, my kingdom isn’t of here, and if I ignore all that is afflicting the rest of you, but am winsome enough to help you be a Christian, then once everyone is a Christian, I’ll vote.”

    That’s my pastor’s take. On the one hand, he always says don’t be so heavenly minded that you are of no earthly use, but then he says politics is a distraction to focusing on God. Great.

    “Hey, Elon, you are voting Trump because you don’t like your boy being tranzed? Don’t worry about it, just get on the winning eternal side and use your time to go to church and small group instead.”

    That sounds like a college friend who used to tell me communism will work once we are all doing it.

    More plainly, I wish you would vote, and you would vote for Trump.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “Thanks for allowing to post something that is not in the same vein as the rest of you. “

      Of course. That goes without saying.

      “More plainly, I wish you would vote, and you would vote for Trump”

      From one of the links at feeriker’s post:

      “In truth, in the case of individuals, their actual voting is not to be taken as proof of consent, even for the time being. On the contrary, it is to be considered that, without his consent having ever been asked, a man finds himself environed by a government that he cannot resist; a government that forces him to pay money, render service, and forego the exercise of many of his natural rights, under peril of weighty punishments. He sees, too, that other men practise this tyranny over him by the use of the ballot. He sees further that, if he will but use the ballot himself, he has some chance of relieving himself from this tyranny of others, by subjecting them to his own. In short, he finds himself, without his consent, so situated that, if he use the ballot, he may become a master; if he does not use it, he must become a slave. And he has no other alternative than these two. In self-defence, he attempts the former. His case is analogous to that of a man who has been forced into battle, where he must either kill others, or be killed himself. Because, to save his own life in battle, a man attempts to take the lives of his opponents, it is not to be inferred that the battle is one of his own choosing. Neither in contests with the ballot — which is a mere substitute for a bullet — because, as his only chance of self-preservation, a man uses a ballot, is it to be inferred that the contest is one into which he voluntarily entered; that he voluntarily set up all his own natural rights, as a stake against those of others, to be lost or won by the mere power of numbers. On the contrary, it is to be considered that, in an exigency, into which he had been forced by others, and in which no other means of self-defence offered, he, as a matter of necessity, used the only one that was left to him.”

      Are you the master or are you the slave? Or are you something else entirely?

    2. professorGBFMtm

      “Hey, Elon, you are voting Trump because you don’t like your boy being tranzed? Don’t worry about it, just get on the winning eternal side and use your time to go to church and small group instead.”

      That sounds like a college friend who used to tell me communism will work once we are all doing it.

      More plainly, I wish you would vote, and you would vote for Trump.

      Hey, SurfDumb you did raise hell with the Limbaughs, Hannitys, and Levins who reluctantly or NOT at all backed Trump in 2016?

      Of course, you didn’t as you didn’t see enough others doing it too.

      Yet i bet you still despise Doc Mike Savage (who in this following video admits to supporting Trump (officially)with interviews with him since 2011-if it wasn’t for Michael Savage yelling and ”sounding insane” as your old idol Limbaugh said in ’06 over the border 27+ years ago your idols Trump,Hannity, O’Reilly, nor Sparkly(yeah i saw your non-participation(only in your head and here that you complain about it if certainly do it but never your idols doing it even to Derek at this very site ) in ”attacking others personally”(that you don’t like supposedly and will complain about)) at Spawnys last week that scared Sparkly away from there for a few days after FB, Spawny nor Cill approved of it like after Sparklys ”union soldiers raping southern women” comment that got deleted quickly by Spawny/Cheque’d out with this comment :
      ”fux this $#it isn’t funny” comment from Spawny/Cheque’d out -himself there in May 2021) would be yelling about illegals or borders or culture now.

      Like nobody would ever mention icky to them & NOT COOL with the kids like Game was”Patriarchy’ without GBFM first doing it in the ROISSY/Man( name changed for all the lefty blankslatists coming into the ROISSYosphere in troll hordes wanting to be seen as ”cool & hip” like ROISSY & GBFM)osphere early 2010(years before the ”Patriarchists” had seen the failure of ”MENZ UP MEN & LEARN GAME TO TAME DEM HOES INTO SUBMISSION” )instead tell Sparkly, Brian Forbes AKA Jack Wayne and BGR=LARRYSOLOMON=MATTPERKINS to stop taking/stealing GBFMS valor without crediting GBFM at least as the first promoting Patriarchy and NOT ””MENZ UP MEN & LEARN GAME TO TAME DEM HOES INTO SUBMISSION” like ”ST.” Deti still foolishly says sometimes after saying in Summer ’23 at Spawnys ”game failed”&”the MANosphere failed” that Sparkly said was trollish on the Saints part but of course you forget that as it doesn’t fit your narrative or ”worldview”.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxhjtqoGkM

      Yet you still support the enemy within(the name of one of MIKE SAVAGE’S early BOOKS -coincidence huh with Trump?) the country like O’Reilly,Hannity and Levin who couldn’t support Trump in ’16 yet you scold Derek?

      1. Derek L. Ramsey

        “yet you scold Derek?”

        It’s not clear to me when the burden of proof fell upon me to prove that voting isn’t inherently faulty. The fact that I can be scolded by anyone at all, should make it clear enough that voting is coerced and not the act of a free man.

        This reminds me of when Sharkly scolded me for not being man enough in my own house, as if he knows better than me how I should run my own family. Surfdumb’s so-called “scolding”—barely qualifying as such—is the same thing.

        Am I sovereign in my own domain or not?

        The assumption that Trump is inherently owed my vote just because I don’t like Harris denies me agency. The idea is insulting and disrespectful.

        —————————————————————

        Back when I did vote, I was registered independent. I don’t think I ever voted for a Republican for president, or voted a straight ticket.

        I don’t think the Republicans are the least of evils. I’m a “centrist” who sees how evil Republicans are, how much harm they do, have done, and will do. My least favorite President was George W. Bush, a war-loving man who helped pass some of the worst legislation in U.S. history. And he did it all as the “Christian” candidate, doing incalculable damage to the cause of Christ. Should we talk about No-Fault Divorce Reagan?

        Surfdumb can wish all he wants that I’d vote for Trump, but even if I had voted in this election, my vote would have gone elsewhere, probably to Harris (and I live in a swing state!). After all, the first time Trump ran, I told my family to vote for Clinton so that the subsequent moral decline couldn’t be blamed on Christians and to further clarify the moral issues in an unambiguous fashion as being sin. 2020 would unambiguously clarify the moral issues, but it only served to further implicate Christians and accelerate Christianity’s decline. I was right.

        I mostly keep this sort of stuff to myself. The only reason I mention it here is to expose the simplistic false dichotomy for what it is. I’m more concerned with the condition of man’s hearts and souls.

        1. Lastmod

          And yes. W Bush is a war criminal. Him and Tony Blair from the UK are two of the primary reasons why we are where we are at right now concerning many pressing issues in the world / globally.

          When the Democrats “took back the House” and Pelosi stands at the podium and immediately says “Impeachment is off the table” (concerning W Bush). I knew right then, they were complicit in all that had happened. I began to ask myself “does voting really matter”

          It really doesnt. The best you can do is cling to your faith, your Bible, family, guns, and the people you care about in your local community.

          These political leaders dont care one iota about you.

        2. professorGBFMtm

          My least favorite President was George W. Bush, a war-loving man who helped pass some of the worst legislation in U.S. history. And he did it all as the “Christian” candidate, doing incalculable damage to the cause of Christ.

          Did he ever especially with the”Christians and Muslims worship the same God.”

          A Christian can say that?
          Not so after JESUS said this:

          I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.-
          Berean Standard Bible-John 10:9

          also, these links ( that SD will refuse to see or hear)explain more about W. saying that stuff:
          https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-media-see-through-George-W-Bush-s-fake-persona-of-an-evangelical-Christian

          Why didn’t the media see through George W. Bush’s fake persona of an evangelical Christian?

          Sort
          Profile photo for William Welch
          William Welch
          Former Retired manager (analyst/planner)Author has 8.2K answers and 2.1M answer views4y
          Why didn’t the media see through George W. Bush’s fake persona of an evangelical Christian?

          Short version:

          They didn’t want to.
          Long version:

          Bush41 was an incredible second bite at the apple. Clinton did more for supply side voodoo Reaganomics than any Republican, and now corporations had a moron at the helm. Why mess with that?

          And there is is, the truth about how the stupidest candidate of the last hundred years became the most measurably failed president in US history.

          Profile photo for Alex Huang
          Alex Huang
          Raised in a Baptist ChurchAuthor has 4.1K answers and 1.6M answer viewsJul 2
          They did.

          Right here in a 2004 interview, George W. Bush outright denied Jesus as the ONLY WAY to Heaven and has said on numerous occasions that Christians and other religions worship the same god.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndH1cMS_oCk

          & before that:
          https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/christians-muslims-worship-same-god-bush-tells-reporters/

          LONDON (BP)–In an answer likely to upset evangelicals and other members of his Christian base, President Bush said Nov. 20 that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

          Speaking at a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Bush was asked his thoughts on how the war on terrorism and his promotion of freedom intersects with his Christian faith.

          “I do say that freedom is the Almighty’s gift to every person,” Bush answered. “I also condition it by saying freedom is not America’s gift to the world. It’s much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same God.”

          The answer was in response to a question specifically asking him how he reacts to those who say the god of Islam is not the God of Christianity.

          “Mr. President, when you talk about peace in the Middle East, you’ve often said that freedom is granted by the Almighty,” the reporter asked. “Some people who share your beliefs don’t believe that Muslims worship the same Almighty. I wonder about your views on that and Mr. Prime Minister’s, as a man also of faith, I’d like to get your reaction to that.”

          Blair avoided the Christianity-Islam question and instead gave a general answer about freedom.

          “I believe that if people are given the chance to have freedom, whatever part of the world they’re in, whatever religion they practice, whatever faith they have, if they’re given the chance to have freedom, they welcome it,” Blair said.

          Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Commission, said that while he respects Bush he believes the president is wrong.

          Where are the” rp leaders” at calling W. a troll who twicked them along with their political radio idol Limbaugh between 2000 & ’08?

          1. Derek L. Ramsey

            “Where are the” rp leaders” at calling W. a troll who twicked them along with their political radio idol Limbaugh between 2000 & ’08?”

            I was young and stupid when I was actually happy that GWB won the election in 2000, but I quickly became jaded when I saw what he actually did while in office. What a fool I was.

            Since then, I’ve only been fooled once more: Chris Christie.

            I intend never to be fooled again. Twice is enough.

          2. Lastmod

            ANd….he said “Islam is a religion of peace”

            That wasnt Obama, or Kerry.

            He also called “Pakistan our most loyal friend in Asia”

            (screw you Japan 🙂 )

            And. Near the end of his presidency…while I toiled and hustled looking for work, side gigs, under the table. Barely paying rent, barely keeping my clothing clean and my haircut….I was listening to talk radio (Glen Beck? Hannity? El Rushbo?)

            W Bush was in Mexico, and he worked for a few minutes at some vegetable packaging warehouse. He called packing lettuce into a box “the highlight of his presidency”

            I remember smoking my last cigarette to payday (four days off) while he said that. I remember looking around my tiny, tidy….but cramped studio in a bad area of Fresno. I was thinking “Wow……geee…most powerful man in the world. All the lives lost on 9/11. All the destruction to Iraq and other peoples. The blunders. All of that….and packing lettuce into a box is the “highlight” of your presidency. Wow. Proud of you.”

            And the radio host (El Rushbo, Hannity, or Beck???) called his statement genius and humble and brilliant.

            These men were just as brainwashed to a party as they claim the other side to be. Lost a lot of faith in the system that day if truth be told.

        3. “The fact that I can be scolded by anyone at all, should make it clear enough that voting is coerced and not the act of a free man.”

          Again, I’m amazed at how routinely this simple and very obvious point escapes the Congregation of the Holy Polling Place. Evangelizing the vote with the zeal of an Inquisitor or a Jihadist, while certainly demonstrating one’s own dedication to the faith, hardly makes it appealing to others not converted. To evangelize voting in such a manner while associating it with “freedom” (a word that, along with “abuse,” is one of the most misused in the English language) does little buy to diminish the appeal of freedom (maybe that’s the intent).

          1. Derek L. Ramsey

            “I’m amazed at how routinely this simple and very obvious point escapes the Congregation of the Holy Polling Place”

            And yet, Surfdumb doesn’t seem to understand this point. Am I explaining it wrong? Is it too complicated? What seems obvious and simple to us is apparently not so obvious and simple to others.

    3. Lastmod

      I voted for him in 2016.

      The swamp was not drained. Spending went up. Mexico didnt pay for the wall. Apple did not start manufacturing their phones in the USA. The Constitution was not followed (spending bills are not constitutional). His cabinet selection was terrible (many turned on him, threw him under the bus). Immigration was down, but still happening……ICE ordered not to report (voila! immigration is down!). His spending (not the sole factor, or solely by him) during Covid did…in part….increase inflation into 2021. Social Security not “fixed” (no surprise there).

      Spent more time gladhandling about how amazing he was…and even claimed he was the “greatest president ever” and wasted more time calling opposing politicians “funny” names.

      What a great leader.

      Yes, the other side is worse……but at this rate, I as a US Citizen am “tired” of voting “the lesser of two evils”

      None of the above for me this time. The first time I have not voted since I started in 1988.

      1. Derek L. Ramsey

        “I voted for him in 2016. The swamp was not drained.”

        Right? Have we all forgotten that he was already President once? He had his chance and he failed. If you have to be fooled, it’s best to be fooled just the once.

        “Yes, the other side is worse”

        Is it? Trump was President during the single worst abrogation of freedom and justice in my lifetime and the largest expansion of tyranny in U.S. history, and it’s not even close. By that measure, he’s the worst president I’ve ever seen, by a massively large margin. The biggest criticism of Biden is that he was old and ineffective and didn’t actually do anything (i.e. he was a puppet).

        “The first time I have not voted since I started in 1988.”

        This is the first election since my first eligibility in which I am not on the voter rolls.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      Hitchens noted how government ignores the cost in lives that its policies will have. It couches its disregard for lives under moralistic posturing like “fighting tyranny.”

      Like with Syria, when the Russia-Ukraine conflict started, the only obvious solution was for Ukraine to negotiate (or even surrender) as the weaker party in order to save lives. A Pyrrhic victory is no victory, but that was the alternative chosen. The choice they made merely threw lives and money away, while dooming the country:

      Ukraine has already died, it’s just waiting on the political machine (and time) for it to unfold.

      Over the next three decades, it will likely lose at least a quarter to a third of its population. And after that, it will continue to drop. It is estimated that by the end of the century, the population will be almost a third of what it is now. Ukraine, like Japan, is done.

      Russia will suffer too, but not nearly as badly.

      What a waste.

      For comparison, here is the United States, which while not even close to healthy is going to be much better off than Russia or Ukraine:

      1. Lastmod

        Agreed. Now, our Red Pill friends will argue “well, we abort a gazillion babies a year and if we just elect (insert Republican politicians name here) it will stop and Americans will become christian and go to church”

        In college, we had many Japnaese students. This was the late 1980’s. I recall Hiroshi once saying

        “Japan expects me to work really, really hard. Save my money, get married, father children and then save really really hard…the average age of first time home ownership in Japan is now for a man well over forty! My parents could afford one when they were barely out of school, and my mother didnt have to work! And, I am one of three children! A young couple today can barely afford one child! The cost for this is way too high. Japanese who were born in the 1970’s have no way of ever affording a home unless it is deeded to them. The older generations in Japan got what they wanted, put a fence around it and then tell us ‘we are lazy and dont want to work’ and Japanese women have no interest in any Japanese man who isnt wealthy, or handsome and the normal ones all want white guys from America, England or Australia. All the older generations can say is you are not working hard enough to its men, and they let the women off the hook.”

        This was 1989. Prophetic.

  4. Surfdumb

    Well, that went about as well as expected. One quick point, I must have written poorly because “scolding” wasn’t on my mind. GBFM used the word, but Derek, you seemed to agree.
    I don’t think scolding another man is very effective.

    Yes, I voted for Trump in 2016. Can’t stand Hannity or OReilly, but that’s neither here nor there.

    Yes, I often follow a crowd, and am rarely standing out front alone. I definitely don’t have a prophetic gift of future predictions or dream interpretation. However, I’m too dim to see what your point is. My thinking about this election should be ignored now because something in 2016.
    I can handle Jason’s reason. A country too far gone, like Venezuela or China, isn’t worth voting in, and you see us in that dire of straits.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      “I don’t think scolding another man is very effective.”

      I think you were implicitly scolding me as a consequence of your argument, not that you were doing so by intention. Or, to put it differently, your ideas are scolding. It’s not personal (and is not an ad hominem).

      Your argument really isn’t your argument at all. The idea that voting is some sort of civic duty is held by massive numbers of people. It is the de facto standard belief. So, it is not you that is scolding me per se, it is the general society that produced that argument. It is the crowd.

      “I’m too dim to see what your point is.”

      The problem is that it denies me agency in the name of freedom. It is self-refuting.

      As in the example of the soldier, he has a binary choice: kill or be killed. Any other alternative, such as deserting, would likely be met with death. Thus, he is coerced.

      Voting is the same, except the coercion is socially-based in shame and guilt, rather than physically-based in life-or-death. And so, unlike the soldier, with voting, desertion is a valid choice, albeit equally vilified.

      In making your argument, you are taking on the role of the enforcer. You are doing your civic duty to shame me for my position. Yeah, you’re not literally killing me for it (as with a deserting soldier) and you are being extremely polite and nice about it, but it’s a scolding nonetheless. It is collective scolding: a million voices quietly and persistently applying a smidgen of guilt and shame that combines into condemnation.

      This is the way bureaucracies work. No one takes responsibility for their role. It’s how covid mandates could happen without anyone deciding to making any mandates: the CDC just made recommendations, the State just did what the CDC told them to do, and the local officials just followed the State guidelines. Somehow nobody is to blame.

      Except you are taking part on the collective scolding ritual. You’re being polite and nice about it, and you don’t even know the role you are playing!

      ——————————-

      Is there a better way to explain it? Let’s try this…

      Most people focus on first-order effects. They can only see how an action has an immediate reaction. They either can’t or won’t see the second- and third-order effects. These are the “unforseen” consequences that take place in a lengthier chain of causality.

      Taking part in voting, even for the good guys, has major negative second- and third-order effects. It results in net harm.

      Treating voting as a civic duty is simplistic thinking which only considers the binary first-order effects while denying the relevancy of the second- and third-order effects. But the latter are far, far more important.

      1. Derek L. Ramsey

        Surfdumb,

        Being polite and nice doesn’t make your actions good. It’s very nearly meaningless as a measure of right and wrong.

        Kermit Gosling was an extremely nice person, but he committed some of the worst atrocities known to man. He’s completely unrepentant.

        Bureaucratic evil relies on individuals doing their part for the collective. Whether it is the calm social pressure of mask wearing, the pressure to use preferred pronouns, the pressure not to complain about men playing in women’s sports, or the pressure to vote, the participants rarely see themselves as doing anything wrong.

        They are your family members. They are your loved ones.

        Kermit Gosling had loved ones and family members.

        The point is, I like how you are nice and polite and meas well, but the idea that I should (rather than might if I wanted to) vote is fundamentally evil.

        How can talking about an idea be evil? Because you are not merely presenting an idea for debate or discussion, but suggesting that I should embrace it. That’s an ad hominem.

        On this forum, we generally want men and women to be exposed to ideas and then make up their own minds. We sometimes tell people what they should do, but this opens us up to fair-game criticism.

        “Well, that went about as well as expected. “

        Go ahead and explain why voting is great and why not voting is bad, even morally wrong, but don’t try to proselytize if you don’t want criticism in response. The moment you suggest that someone is worse than you are, you’ve opened yourself to critique. You can’t shy away from that, because you implicitly asked for it. Next time, leave your critique neutral if you want to exceed your expectations.

        Peace,
        DR

  5. Derek L. Ramsey

    FWIW, the betting markets currently have Trump winning with a 60%+ probability. If previous elections are any indication, we won’t know for a few days or weeks.

    Regardless, it seems rather obvious that God has divinely protected Trump from all manner of attacks—legal, physical, verbal, etc.—that would normally have taken down another man. Does this mean he wins? No. Does that mean he deserves to win? No. Is Trump the means of our salvation or our doom? I have not the foggiest idea.

    All I know is that God is in control and it’s rather hilarious to think that I could alter his will by voting. His will, whether for blessing or curse, will be done.

    1. FWIW, the betting markets currently have Trump winning with a 60%+ probability. If previous elections are any indication, we won’t know for a few days or weeks.

      Incredible, isn’t it, that just half a century ago, with (relatively) primitive technology in play, the results of the election were known by midnight. Nowadays, with state-of-the-art technology, they need days or weeks to wrap the process up. Either the technology is worthless, the people using it are stupider than their predecessors of 50 years ago, or the corruption has gotten a whole lot more complex and out of control. I’d wager on some combination of all three of those things.

      and packing lettuce into a box is the “highlight” of [his] presidency.

      Hey, go easy on the guy. I’m sure it was no small feat to 1) teach him what lettuce is, 2) teach him what a box is and what it’s used for, 3) show him how to use his hands for something other than nose picking or masturbation, and 4) show him how to put one object into another. It probably WAS one of his highlights, not only of his presidency, but of his entire life. It was probably the first time he actually ever did anything useful and productive. There’s a simultaneous first and last time in everyone’s life for doing something. In Dubya’s case, he should be grateful that it didn’t cause a cerebral hemorrhage.

  6. Liz

    I woke up this morning feeling revitalized.
    Hadn’t realized the impact on my health until I woke up feeling better this morning.
    If bureaucracy is the inherent problem in this system I can’t think of anyone more capable of trying to cut it than Elon Musk.

    Saw this and thought I’d share.
    “Let that sink in”….same thing he said when he took over twitter.
    We might have our Tribonian.
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1854034776815972649
    Would not have happened if everyone stayed home instead of voting.
    Yes, God’s will be done.
    That will is sometimes exercised via the actions of people.
    I am hopeful, and grateful. We’ll see what the future holds. At least we have some talented and capable people going into positions in government who aren’t completely owned by the pharmaceutical companies and Lockheed.

    Grace and Peace,
    Liz out

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      The best hope of Trump is what he was elected to be, to borrow a phrase from Michael Moore: a hand grenade. He’s there to blow things up. He didn’t do that during his first term. Here’s to hoping he does so on his second.

      “That will is sometimes exercised via the actions of people.”

      Sometimes it is, yes. We’ll see.

      1. Liz

        Looking with hindsight 20/20 (often things that aren’t clear going forward are clear looking back), it is a blessing Trump didn’t win last time. It took 4 long years of madness to get us here. The first term Congress stopped him at every turn . TPTB made sure to take away the knowledgable players when he stepped into office (Flynn for example) so he would be a rudderless little boat.
        This time is different. He is much wiser, and he has been picking out a good team of people outside of the hellscape that is Washington.
        True, we will see.
        At least in 4 years we aren’t likely to have expanded the USSC. There is a long tough road ahead though.
        Take care.

        1. Derek L. Ramsey

          “it is a blessing Trump didn’t win last time”

          Things are always a bit more complicated than we expect.

          “This time is different. He is much wiser, and he has been picking out a good team of people outside of the hellscape that is Washington.”

          I’m very skeptical, but it does seem to be the case. He has had time to learn from his mistakes. Did he actually learn from his mistakes? Maybe.

          But as you note, Washington is still a hellscape. Even if congress goes full Republican, it is still made up of the establishment. “Good” Trump could easily make enemies of his own party and get blocked by his own party. For that reason, I’m not expecting miracles.

          What I want to see, more than anything else, is a massive reformation of the regulatory bureaucracy. I want to see the offices of the executive branch purged, like Elon did at Twitter, but in the Federal government.

  7. professorGBFMtm

    So it was like the ”year of the woman” from ’92 again i.e. ”It’s THE ECONOMY STUPID” with Trump winning and many saying ”if only Kamala had turned on Biden then maybe just maybe she would have won”:

    Also more on scolds, Doug Wilson(&Dalrock) that i was latently thinking about yesterday from princeasbel:
    https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/letters-dalrock-tolkien-privilege.html

    princeasbel
    6 years ago
    Wilson is not “putting women in charge” of any sphere that Scripture doesn’t charge them with.

    Except that’s exactly what you did, Wilson. If your defender that you quoted were doing what they scolded Dalrock for not doing (I.E. giving a fair treatment), then he/she would be aware that Dalrock quoted you as saying the following in She’s the boss, you’re a guest. (a post linked to in the article in which your defender posted his/her comment that she then forwarded to you, and which you have quoted in this article above):

    A wife has authority over her husband’s sex life (1 Cor. 7:4). She has authority over his food (Prov. 31:14). She is responsible for his clothing (Prov. 31:21). (She is supposed to stay out of his fishing gear though.) Is the husband the head of his wife the way Christ is the head of the Church? Absolutely. Is he the boss man? Not even close.

    This paragraph is a perfect example of the action of putting women in charge over something Scripture doesn’t charge them with.

    For example, I Cor. 7:4 says: For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

    The authority of I Cor. 7 is one which declares that neither spouse has the authority to refuse to have sex with the other. That’s it. It does not say, “wives have authority over their husbands’ sex lives”. Make an end of speaking when God does.

    As to Proverbs 31:14 having authority over his food?? Let’s quote that one too.

    Prov. 31:14: She is like the ships of the merchant;
    she brings her food from afar.

    What on earth does that have to do with authority?? It doesn’t. But you said it did.

    You then cite Proverbs 31:21, except here, you said she is responsible for his clothing, as opposed to saying she has authority over his clothing. I don’t think we need to quote that verse since we agree that’s what it teaches. Nevertheless, you threw that in there along with the others to rhetorical ask about the husband:

    Is he the boss man? Not even close.

    So in the end, it’s still a mis-use of the verse. Indeed, your conclusion is a misuse of every verse cited in that paragraph. For your defender to claim that you are not, ““putting women in charge” of any sphere that Scripture doesn’t charge them with.” is not only laughably untrue, but it’s clearly unfair to Dalrock to ignore what he quoted from your own writings.

    I could go on further and critique your defender’s letter, but I’ll end it here.

    1. Lastmod

      [NOTE: this comment was pulled out of the spam folder. Sorry for being late.]

      Well, she probably would have had a better chance if she did distance herself from ol Joe. ‘

      In 1968, Humphrey didnt start climbing in the polls UNTIL he threw LBJ aside. Probably a little too late. He still lost, but the gap would have perhaps closed faster and he could have cinched a victory over Nixon.

      For me….there were two big things

      *When Harris appeared on The View and said she would have done nothing differently over the past four years.

      even the crowd didnt applaud at that. you could see the tension from the panel as well

      *Joe Rogan. I subscribe to his podcast. I listen frequently. She was offered. Joe Rogan mind you….was for Bernie in 2016. She made excuses that she couldnt come on……listed demands, listed time frames and what Joe could or could not talk about. Trump, and I did listen…..still a blowhard……..DID come on and just talk. Harris’s team “how do we message men? How do we get them to listen to us?” Well, they had a golden opportunity with Joe Rogan. 80% of his subscribers are men. That was a missed opportunity. Would have it changed minds? I dont know but anything can help right?

      The last thing………

      Bush I in 1992 once the momentum was falling and it “looked” like Clinton was going to win. Bush refused to go on MTV (the Internet / alternative media / Joe Rogan podcast of its day). He began getting desperate calling Clinton a “communist / socialist” stuff. Harris was in the the same situation here at the end. Instead of ripping up the script, and trying to make an honest appeal……….doubled down. Never works in these situations.

      1. Liz

        I watched the Bush election. He did go on MTV, interviewed with Tabitha Soren.
        He would have been right refuse she was unbelievably dismissive and condescending.
        It was far from “desperate” to call Clinton a commie.
        He went to the USSR during the Vietnam war after dodging the draft and writing a letter to the ROTC commander (which was made public) saying he loathed the military and was essentially trying to get out of service.
        Bush senior was a war hero, and Clinton was a disgrace.

        1. Liz

          Here’s an anecdote. One of Harris’ supporters who is a retired flag officer (can’t remember the name, does’t really matter believe this or don’t)…he went to the White House when he was active duty and was ordered away by….Chelsea, a teenaged snot nosed brat.
          Her comment was “we don’t allow people in uniform here”.
          This is not an urban legend. It happened, but was swept under the rug.
          The officer did not make a public stink about it, and Clinton met with him and told him he owed him a favor. Later, the officer got a lot of promotions and became a proud supporter of the Democrat party.
          The most gratifying thing about this election was watching everyone finally admit they were polishing a turd with Kamala and Biden.
          Okay, done on politics.

          1. Liz

            Since there isn’t an edit button…ONE MORE (that’s right).
            I was very rare for military leaders to endorse Clinton over a war hero in 1992. One retired admiral did. That admiral became the CEO for a company that made anthrax vaccines. Clinton mandated those vaccines even for pregnant women serving in the military.
            After years of forced anthrax jabs on military the consequences to retention (via side effects) were so dire the GAO demanded an oversight committee for the DOD to investigate. Rather than creating that oversight committee the DOD discontinued the jabs.

        2. Lastmod

          Clinton was more Republican than Republicans…esp during his second term. NAFTA, GATT, Glas-Stegal repeal, and of course…The Telecommunications Act and “the era of big government is over” and all the Republicans had “he had sex with an intern! Americans elected us in 1994, this means they want to go to church, be christian and end abortion!”

          Essentially was their argument. The Republicans in general love to lose. Super majority in the House and still couldnt stand up to “mean ol Barak Obama” and “we cant get anything done unless we have the presidency”

          They were given that….and still?????

          This is why I dont vote anymore. All tough talking and then brass tacks……they cant “do” anything. Just as bad as the Democrats they bemoan.

          As for Bush on MTV, you are correct. I do stand corrected. Too little too late it was late October 1992

          1. professorGBFMtm

            Essentially was their argument. The Republicans in general love to lose. Super majority in the House and still couldnt stand up to “mean ol Barak Obama” and “we cant get anything done unless we have the presidency”

            They were given that….and still?????

            This is why I dont vote anymore. All tough talking and then brass tacks……they cant “do” anything. Just as bad as the Democrats they bemoan.

            Remember how W. was reelected mainly based on word of mouth of essentially ” WAIT UNTIL HE GETS BACK IN WITH NOTHING TO LOSE IN ’04 THROUGH ’08! -HE WITH THE R HOUSE & R SENATE MAJORITY WILL WIN THE WAR ON TERROR BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, STOP SPENDING ON FOREIGN AID(EXCEPT FOR OUR ”FRIENDS” OF COURSE) AND AS WELL AS HIS ORIGINAL PROMISES OF ” “change the tone” in D.C., privatize social security and reduce government spending.

            Of course i unlike a certain saint at Spawnys today am not expecting much from Trump as I’m a realist and know no matter what that ”the swamp” doesn’t want to be drained and most Americans really don’t want it to be in the end either as well as the Rs who will team up with the Ds to beat back into submission Trump or anyone else if he doesn’t play by the same ”rules” as last time.

  8. Lastmod

    Interesting.

    In Los Angeles County where I live. Trumps support up four points from 2020 and six from 2016.

    Still lost by a significant majority………..but

    LA’s DA Gascon has been defeated by a wide margin. Even LA Liberals dont like menace, property crime, quality of life and smash and grab

    I dont think our new DA will change much…….but it is interesting to see.

    1. Derek L. Ramsey

      Well, they overwhelmingly passed Prop 36:

      “Even LA Liberals dont like menace, property crime, quality of life and smash and grab”

      California has a massive theft and drug problem that needs to be resolved, and the voters have spoken. If they don’t fix it, I would expect further bloodshed in future elections. If California ever becomes a swing state again, that would alter the American political landscape.

      1. Lastmod

        People forget. California was a overall a “republican” state electorally until the early 1990’s. Texas used to be a “democrat” stalwart. This changed in the early 1990’s.

        LA county also rejected more “rent control” properties. There is a discontent here. Republican challengers to state and federal congressional seats….yes the democrats won…but not the blowout that was had in the past four / six elections

  9. professorGBFMtm

    Update on voting in general.

    What GOOD arguments from Scripture are there against the ”Lesser Of Two Evils” lame argument?
    https://www.openbible.info/topics/lesser_of_two_evils

    46 Bible Verses about
    Lesser Of Two Evils

    James 4:17 ESV / 49 helpful votes
    So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

    1 Thessalonians 5:22 ESV / 45 helpful votes
    Abstain from every form of evil.

    Romans 3:8 ESV / 36 helpful votes
    And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

    Proverbs 3:31 ESV / 24 helpful votes
    Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways,

    Galatians 5:1 ESV / 23 helpful votes
    For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

    Proverbs 17:15 ESV / 23 helpful votes
    He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.

    Exodus 23:2 ESV / 22 helpful votes
    You shall not fall in with the many to do evil, nor shall you bear witness in a lawsuit, siding with the many, so as to pervert justice,

    Revelation 1:1 ESV / 19 helpful votes
    The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

    Luke 3:19 ESV / 18 helpful votes
    But Herod the tetrarch, who had been reproved by him for Herodias, his brother’s wife, and for all the evil things that Herod had done,

    Jeremiah 2:13 ESV / 14 helpful votes
    For my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water.

    1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV / 13 helpful votes
    No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

    Isaiah 7:25 ESV / 13 helpful votes
    And as for all the hills that used to be hoed with a hoe, you will not come there for fear of briers and thorns, but they will become a place where cattle are let loose and where sheep tread.

    Deuteronomy 31:18 ESV / 13 helpful votes
    And I will surely hide my face in that day because of all the evil that they have done, because they have turned to other gods.

    Deuteronomy 31:17 ESV / 13 helpful votes
    Then my anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide my face from them, and they will be devoured. And many evils and troubles will come upon them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’

    Genesis 1:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
    And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.

    Ezekiel 43:14 ESV / 12 helpful votes
    From the base on the ground to the lower ledge, two cubits, with a breadth of one cubit; and from the smaller ledge to the larger ledge, four cubits, with a breadth of one cubit;

    Acts 23:23 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    Then he called two of the centurions and said, “Get ready two hundred soldiers, with seventy horsemen and two hundred spearmen to go as far as Caesarea at the third hour of the night.

    John 14:1-31 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” …

    Matthew 25:22 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’

    Matthew 25:17 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    So also he who had the two talents made two talents more.

    Psalm 40:12 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    For evils have encompassed me beyond number; my iniquities have overtaken me, and I cannot see; they are more than the hairs of my head; my heart fails me.

    Revelation 1:1-20 ESV / 9 helpful votes
    The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood …

    Romans 1:32 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

    Ezekiel 6:9 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    Then those of you who escape will remember me among the nations where they are carried captive, how I have been broken over their whoring heart that has departed from me and over their eyes that go whoring after their idols. And they will be loathsome in their own sight for the evils that they have committed, for all their abominations.

    Hebrews 11:1-40 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. …

    Micah 6:8 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Ezekiel 20:43 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And there you shall remember your ways and all your deeds with which you have defiled yourselves, and you shall loathe yourselves for all the evils that you have committed.

    Nehemiah 7:8 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    The sons of Parosh, 2,172.

    Ezra 2:12 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    The sons of Azgad, 1,222.

    Ezra 2:3 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    The sons of Parosh, 2,172.

    2 Chronicles 4:13 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And the 400 pomegranates for the two latticeworks, two rows of pomegranates for each latticework, to cover the two bowls of the capitals that were on the pillars.

    2 Kings 5:23 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And Naaman said, “Be pleased to accept two talents.” And he urged him and tied up two talents of silver in two bags, with two changes of clothing, and laid them on two of his servants. And they carried them before Gehazi.

    1 Kings 7:42 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And the four hundred pomegranates for the two latticeworks, two rows of pomegranates for each latticework, to cover the two bowls of the capitals that were on the pillars;

    Deuteronomy 31:21 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And when many evils and troubles have come upon them, this song shall confront them as a witness (for it will live unforgotten in the mouths of their offspring). For I know what they are inclined to do even today, before I have brought them into the land that I swore to give.”

    Exodus 39:18 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    They attached the two ends of the two cords to the two settings of filigree. Thus they attached it in front to the shoulder pieces of the ephod.

    Exodus 39:16 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And they made two settings of gold filigree and two gold rings, and put the two rings on the two edges of the breastpiece.

    Exodus 37:27 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    And made two rings of gold on it under its molding, on two opposite sides of it, as holders for the poles with which to carry it.

    Exodus 28:25 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    The two ends of the two cords you shall attach to the two settings of filigree, and so attach it in front to the shoulder pieces of the ephod.

    Hebrews 11:1 ESV / 6 helpful votes
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

    James 4:1-2 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you? You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.

    Matthew 5:31-32 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

    Revelation 3:15-16 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

    Romans 9:1-33 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. …

    John 8:34 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

    Exodus 21:22-25 ESV / 2 helpful votes
    “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

    Exodus 21:22 ESV / 2 helpful votes
    “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    So what are those civic religion arguments worth to Christians?

    Philippians 3:8 ESV / 6 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
    Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ

    Isaiah 64:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

    Luke 14:33 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

    Matthew 13:44-46 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.

    2 Peter 3:8-9 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    Romans 8:18 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

    Matthew 19:29 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.

    1 Corinthians 4:11-13 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.

    2 Corinthians 4:17-18 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

    Hebrews 10:34 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.

    James 1:9-10 ESV / 4 helpful votes
    Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away.

    Now see why those who promote the Civic Religion have to read every Dale Carnegie/Tony Robbins -type book & class they can find-to try to sweet talk Christians into sinning?

  10. professorGBFMtm

    Charlton here tells why all the latter day ”redpillers” who supposedly hate the matrix go along with it.
    It’s almost like supposed redpillers are really something else huh?
    Like tradconnic fedpillers perhaps?

    Thursday 7 November 2024
    Is BRICS the backlash of Lawful Evil?
    As The West continues its path of (in Dungeons and Dragons terms) Chaotic Evil – or what I would term spite-driven Sorathic self-and-other destruction; it seems to me that Lawful Evil (i.e. the Ahrimanic – control-motivated, hence totalitarian and bureaucratic type of evil) is making an attempt at comeback via the now world-dominant BRICS grouping.

    In other words The System (“the Matrix”) is doomed to inwardly-driven (and actively-desired) self-destruction, and is already collapsing, in The West; therefore the powers of evil whose strategy is to impose a material mechanism for spiritual damnation, are shifting attention from The West to The Rest.

    Geopolitics is always evil, no matter its explicit purpose.

    While, from the POV of the dominant countries of the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom, BRICS seems to be a means towards the end of national sovereignty and the cultural autonomy in face of a monolithic globalism; the very facts and necessities of any multi-national compromise coalition, continue to push the existing and emerging alliance towards the nature of Lawful Evil.

    This is evidenced by several of the many recent statements of BRICS policy and strategy; which favour UN-type organizations to formulate and enforce “international regulation”.

    It therefore seem like the demons of Lawful Evil have abandoned “The West” to the ministrations of Chaotic Evil, and are increasingly directing their main efforts towards “The Rest”.

    From a Christian perspective, we are dealing with greater versus lesser evils (at best); therefore there is again the pitfall opening of inducing people actively to support that which is actually-evil, on the basis that it is a different, and maybe less extreme, kind of evil than that which preceded it.

    The danger is that Christians are actively supporting Lawful Evil on the basis that it is possible to be optimistic about its prospects in this-world, here-and-now.

    I suggest that Christians need to be much clearer than they currently seem to be, about the necessity actively to support only that which is Good by motivation and methods – no matter how weak that Good may be in this-worldly terms; and no matter how pessimistic the prospects of Good seem, with things as they currently are.

    On the material and earthly level, Christians will inevitably lose – sooner or later; and it is on the spiritual level that are there solid grounds for realistic optimism.

    The grounds of our hope are sure, but Not Of This World.

    Once we have grasped this; then (but only then) can we see and know how such a spiritual and next-worldly expectation, can and will improve things in this mortal life.

    In D&D terms we should eschew not just evil, but the categories of lawful and chaotic, and pursue that which is creative.

    Most ”genius rp leaders” are ex(or perchance they still childishly play in their mom’s basement & local college drainage system?) expert Dungeon masters so they should be able to understand Bruce’s post above.

    1. Lastmod

      When God gave the Promised Land, and His instructions. The new nation was surrounded not only by potential enemies / hostile people and kingdoms. Many of them had higher material value. With temples, public buildings , better homes and standards of living (higher than then for that time)

      Of course they were seduced slowly into a living situation God did not want or plan for them. By their neighbors, Philistines, The Phoenicians / proto similar Greek culture to empires of the East. Tempting to emulate or want.

      And of course our Modern American Church today. There is nothing wrong with earning money or being a so to speak “rich” Christian. But to make this a “requirement” to be attractive to women, or to have “favor with God” or as a template of what an American Christian Life should be…..

      Well….

      Jesus said to “love God with all your heart and soul and life” and that is the equalization. What of a man who was born with low intellect, but indeed loves Christ as he commanded? What of the rich man who trusts God first on all things, loves Him and understands his “responsibility” of being rich and also knowing, it was of God. Not him.

      Very deep indeed and hence again, Jesus wanted all. He didnt care how much money you had. He wanted you to steward resources that you DO have. He never once mentioned that a man must have x amount of money, prestige or education to “find” a wife

      Nor did he say anything remotely about “status” or “LAMPS” or whatever. It was also not a requirement to be married and father children for “His fathers Kingdom”

      Jesus was single. And “he hath no comeliness that we may be attracted to Him” (Jesus was an average / non descript looking man)

      It has been made today into a whole life planned around status, looks, money, arrogance.

  11. professorGBFMtm

    i wanted to close out this post with two GREAT comments from an old buddy(since 2012 officially at DALS, even though he was reading GBFM at ROISSYS in 2011 when he first showed up in the Roissyosphere) of GBFMS!

    thedeti says:
    8 November, 2024 at 9:49 pm
    Rant ahead.

    I’m flabbergasted. I have close friends IRL and some online. Some of them are college educated and highly intelligent. I love them and I care about them very much. I’ve known them since college. I’ve worked with them, drunk with them, partied with them, laughed with them,
    (HATED MOSES, JESUS & GBFM AS WE SAID ”GAME RULES” & THEN CRIED TOGETHER AS I SAID & admitted ”MUH GAME FAILED” &”MUH MANosphere” last summer at Spawnys that led directly to that sparkly post a few months later about ”trolls”) and moved into middle age with them.

    So imagine my surprise at these erudite intelligent men and women saying, with no irony and in all seriousness, that Trump will suspend the constitution, imprison his political opponents, and “go after” those who oppose him. My friends claim the immunities SCOTUS announced in Trump v. US over the summer will embolden Trump and enable him to engage in all sorts of extraconstitutional behavior and commit human rights violations, that he personally will work to violate the rights of US citizens. They claim that they don’t know our country anymore, and how could almost 71 million people have voted for him.

    These are people who have studied politics, history, economics, war, and law with me, in school and in real life. I’m disappointed in them. They should know better.

    No one, especially not Trump, is going to send jackbooted thugs to anyone’s home to prevent them from doing whatever legal things they’re doing there, including having sex, extramarital sex, adulterous sex, homosexual sex, contracepted sex, or whatever other kind of sex people want to have. No one is going to prevent people from using legal substances in their own homes. No one is going to suspend the constitution. No one will destroy this country’s institutions. They might get RIF’ed some; some people might get fired; and their powers might be limited. But the country will still be here after Trump is inaugurated. It will still be here after Trump leaves office on January 20, 2029. It might look different. But it will still be here.

    I wasn’t all that happy when Bill Clinton was elected in 1992. But life went on. When he was reelected I was working and had been married a few months. And it was OK. When Obama was elected in 2008, I was working at a different job and my son had been born a couple years before. And it was OK. He was reelected in 2012; and it was still OK. Biden was elected in 2020. I didn’t do heel clicks; but life went on and we were OK.

    And we will be OK with Trump, and afterwards too.

    If Kamala had been elected, I wouldn’t have been happy about it. But it would have been OK.

    I wasn’t happy about the Great Recession Obama caused, but I was OK.

    I wasn’t happy about the economy going to shit and the culture war Obama insisted on, but I put up with it. I wasn’t happy about World War Trans that Biden instigated, but we were OK. I started getting really alarmed at going after the kids with Drag Queen Story Hour and transitioning minors. But I didn’t say much.

    I didn’t pout and sulk and take my toys and go home. I didn’t grouse and gripe about the country going to hell. I didn’t threaten to leave the country (I really can’t). I did what I always do – I shut the fuck up, I went to work, I did my job, I paid the bills, I paid my taxes, I went to church and prayed, I drank some whiskey, and tried to relax about it all. Oh, yeah, and I voted.

    I didn’t act like a little bitch about it. I didn’t wring my hands about it like a little girl. I rolled up my sleeves and I did the work set before me.

    So I’m disappointed. In my friends. In people I thought I knew. In people who I thought were made of sterner stuff. In people who I thought understood how these things play out over the long arc of history. I guess I had more faith in their understanding and their maturity, and in the people of the US. In my friends. In people I’ve known my whole life.

    I was wrong. Maybe they were too.

    I’m just disappointed today. I thought my countrymen, educated men, erudite men, men of letters and knowledge and acumen and history, knew better.

    I guess over time we’ll see who’s wrong and who’s right.

    thedeti says:
    8 November, 2024 at 10:17 pm
    1974: “The long national (Watergate) nightmare is over”

    1975, Carter: “I’ll never lie to you”

    1979: “Reagan is a moronic cowboy actor who is going to get us all killed. He’s a warmonger who will goad the USSR into blowing up the entire world”

    1983: “Reagan is an international bully who’s destroying the world and the economy”

    1991: “GHWBush got us into war and a shitty economy. He’s going to get us all killed over a Saddam grudge. We have to replace him”

    1999: “GWB is a moron who’s going to get us all killed” (rather, he defended us after 9/11 but got us into the Iraq War which still didn’t get us all killed)

    2003: “GWB will still get us all killed”

    2007: “Obama will bring healing and light to us all and forgive the stain of racism. Hope and Change, baby”

    ”REDPILL”/Manosphere{the cheap failurous enemy within the Roissyosphere} Late 2008 : ”GAME is going to save muh marriages and Western Civ” according to Athol Kay, Susan Walsh & about the same time Vox Day.

    2011: Romney’s a weirdo with the weird Mormon underwear. Reelect Obama so the healing can continue despite high interest rates and inflation. H5N1 and Ebola, no problem.”

    2015: “Deplorables! Trump is a moron who will get us all killed!”

    Spring 2020: “Covid! Trump isn’t doing anything about it! He’s a moron and we’ll all die because of him!”

    The 2020 Summer of BLM Love: “Trump m*rd*red George Floyd! It’s all his fault! He has brought hate and division that must be healed!”

    ”REDPILL”osphere{the enemy within the Roissyosphere} under ”rp genius leaders”’ Jan 2023 : ” Derek & GBFM m*rd*red redpill not us ”good” guys & are to blame for our mass stupidity & mass failure as tradcon fedpiller infiltrators brosz”

    2024: “Oh God that Trump guy again… Oh shit Biden fell apart… Obama save us… Kamala to the rescue… Trump is a racist/sexist/fascist/muh democracy…”

    And we’re still here (as DEREK, MOD, LIZ, MOSES, JESUS, and GBFM make much progress in MEN’s knowledge & advancement, ladsz.)

    i like Deti’s new positive white pillish attitude!

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